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From Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: A Very Wavey Plan (P2P!)
Date Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:41:00 GMT
Multiple nodes. We'll have an API that lets you connect to a remote
peer and sync documents.

And Yuri - I wasn't really talking about svn or git ;)

What are your thoughts on the wavelet data model decision?

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Pratik Paranjape
<pratikparanjape@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very exciting! Are you thinking about sync between multiple nodes or just 2?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sounds fantastic, especially when it comes from you Joseph.
>> Just a side note regarding SVN-Git issue - it is possible to combine both
>> by using git-svn - it works fine for me.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Joseph Gentle <josephg@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I've given half a dozen talks about ShareJS over the last 3 years, and
>> > almost every time I give a talk, someone asks me whether you can use
>> > ShareJS in a peer-to-peer way instead of just through a single server.
>> >
>> > "You say it works like subversion. Can it work like Git?"
>> > "Can you have a document shared between multiple servers?"
>> >
>> > Sigh no. ShareJS & Wave's algorithms were invented in 1995. Back then,
>> > it was news when someone put up a new website.
>> >
>> > "What about Wave Federation?" Appropriately, it works like IRC, but
>> > using XML. Its complicated, its vulnerable to netsplits and its buggy.
>> > I guess its like IRC except it doesn't actually work.
>> >
>> > So lets fix that! Lets modernize wave and make it federate properly.
>> > On the way we have a great opportunity to make it simpler and cleaner.
>> >
>> >
>> > To start, I want to build a generic P2P OT container. This is a simple
>> > wrapper that contains a set of OT documents and defines a network
>> > protocol for keeping them in sync. The container needs to be able to
>> > talk to another instance of itself running somewhere else and
>> > syncronize documents between the two instances.
>> >
>> > Thats all I want this container to do - it should be as lightweight as
>> > possible, so we can port it to lots of different languages and
>> > environments. I want that code running in websites, in giant server
>> > farms, in vim, and everywhere in between. It won't have any database
>> > code, network code, users or a user interface (though it'll need APIs
>> > to support all of that stuff). At its core it just does OT + protocol
>> > work to syncronize documents.
>> >
>> > What are the documents? Well, like ShareJS, I'd like to support
>> > multiple different kinds of data. We'll need to be able to support
>> > wave's conversation model, but I'd also like to support arbitrary
>> > JSON. Doing OT over arbitrary JSON structures would allow other
>> > applications to be built on top of wave, using wave as a data platform
>> > ("Glorious messaging bus in the sky"). It'd also be super useful for
>> > gadgets and user data.
>> >
>> > There's three models I can imagine for what wavelets could look like:
>> >
>> > Option 1: All documents in the container have a unique name and a
>> > type. This is how ShareJS works. We could have a JSON type and a
>> > wavelet type. This is simple, but not particularly extensible (it
>> > makes it hard to embed JSON inside a conversation, and vice versa).
>> >
>> > Option 2: At the root of every document is a JSON object. Leaves in
>> > the JSON structure can be subdocuments, which could be rich text for
>> > blips, or any other type we think of down the road.
>> >
>> > Option 3: We make another layer, which can contain a set of documents.
>> > So, a wavelet could contain a JSON document describing the
>> > conversation structure, some rich text documents for blips and another
>> > JSON document containing gadget data or something. Access control
>> > rules are at the container level. This is (sort of) how wavelets work
>> > today.
>> >
>> > The OT itself I imagine building along the lines of Torben Weis's P2P
>> > OT theory that he made in Lightwave:
>> > https://code.google.com/p/lightwave/ . Briefly, every operation gets a
>> > hash (like git). We add tombstones to wave's OT type and remove
>> > invertability, so the transform function supports TP2. We also add a
>> > prune function (inverse transform) which allows the history list to be
>> > reordered (so you don't have to transform out on every site). The hard
>> > part is figuring out which operations to sync, and which operations
>> > need to be reordered. I'd like to go over the details with Michael
>> > MacFadden and anyone else who's interested - there may well be a
>> > better system that we should use instead. If there is, I'd like to
>> > know about it now.
>> >
>> >
>> > Once thats built, we can start integrating it into WIAB. The simplest
>> > way to do the client-server protocol and federation will be to simply
>> > reuse the container's protocol (obviously wrapped for access control).
>> > We could also strip it down for pure client-server interaction if we
>> > want, to make it less chatty. (If we decide thats worthwhile.)
>> >
>> > I'm also thinking about full end-to-end encryption. Especially in the
>> > wake of the PRISM stuff, I'd quite like to make something secure.
>> > Snowden: "Encryption works. Properly implemented strong crypto systems
>> > are one of the few things that you can rely on. Unfortunately,
>> > endpoint security is so terrifically weak that NSA can frequently find
>> > ways around it." --
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower
>> > .
>> >
>> >
>> > All of this should happen in the experiments branch (with a mirror on
>> > github).
>> >
>> > The design decisions that we make here will be really hard to change
>> > later, so I'd like to get this right. I'd like as much feedback as
>> > possible. But please restrain yourself from complaining that its too
>> > much work. You're not the boss of me :D
>> >
>> > Also, I expect the core OT piece to be no longer than a few thousand
>> > lines. We can definitely pull that off - its just figuring out what
>> > those lines are thats the tricky part.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Joseph
>> >
>>

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