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From Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Wave and OpenOffice
Date Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:17:54 GMT
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Dave <wave@glark.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/06/13 09:29, Michael MacFadden wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> What we would need to do to support integration with Open Office, or any
>> other app, is abstract our OT Core Engine in two ways.  First it would
>> need to become a stand alone service that other apps could hook in to.
>> Second we would need to change the operations to be more generic than the
>> current set that are tied to the wave conversation model. The current OT
>> model is not flexible enough to become a core OT framework for other apps
>> to use.
>
>
> Michael,
>
> Have you had a chance to look at the SLOB layer in google walkaround [1]?
>
> <quote>
> Much of the walkaround code is not specific to Wave, but factored out as a
> separate, more general collaboration layer that manages shared live objects.
> These objects can be modified by multiple clients at the same time, with
> changes made by any client immediately broadcast to all others. The Wave
> application is built on top of this, but the live collaboration layer is
> flexible enough to support other applications.
> </quote>
>
> It's apache licensed, and took at least some insperation from ShareJS.

It was sort of the other way around. ShareJS's OT architecture was
inspired by hallway chats with Dan Danilatos. Walkaround was written
at the same time as sharejs. Its all very incestuous.

As I understand it, walkaround's architecture is similar to ShareJS
except that out of the box walkaround only has support for wave's
wavelet/blip ot model.

-J

> Dave
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/walkaround/
>
>
>> One of the things that always struck me in Wave was that the conversation
>> model used OT but that the gadget API did not.  This is in part because
>> gadgets had their own data model which had nothing to do with
>> conversations (lines, annotations, etc) which were not supported well by
>> Wave's OT.
>>
>> The google real time API is a step in that direction, but there are a
>> couple problems with it.  1) It is a javascript API rather than a service.
>> 2) You are forced to use it's data types rather than your own, and 3) your
>> data must be stored on Drive.
>>
>> I have seen two proprietary OT engines that seem to work well acting as a
>> service and one open source one.  If we are to grow, I think this is the
>> direction the OT code needs to go in.
>>
>> I think Joseph and I (so far as I can tell) are probably the two most
>> interested people in doing this.
>>
>> I think we need to develop mini communities within wave.  Those that are
>> focused on the OT / CC Stack, those that are focused on clients, those
>> that are interested in federation, etc.  If we can pair up some folks that
>> are interested in each of these areas (and others), I think we can make
>> some progress.
>>
>> ~Michael
>>
>> On 6/15/13 8:25 PM, "Yuri Z" <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a note - the rendering to static HTML is experimental and wasn't
>>> actually submitted to official Apache Wave repo since there was no
>>> agreement on the way on how this should implemented right without
>>> breaking
>>> static bindings when compiling from GWT to Javascript.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Zachary ³Gamer_Z.² Yaro
>>> <zmyaro@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> @Fleeky, Yuri actually added some
>>>> code<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/vega113/WaveInCloud/tree/master/src/org/waveprotocol/b
>>>> ox/server/rpc/render
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> WIAB for static HTML rendering, so that could be a solution to your
>>>> publishing problems.  In addition, Google Wave, Rizzoma, and (I* *think)
>>>> WIAB (with Yuri's code) support exporting to HTML or PDF.  Is that what
>>>> you
>>>> were asking for?
>>>>
>>>> @John, I definitely like the idea of being able to log into a wave
>>>> server
>>>> from OpenOffice and edit waves through it, but I think we need a
>>>> standardized wave client-server protocol first.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ‹Zachary ³Gamer_Z.² Yaro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 15 June 2013 12:34, Fleeky Flanco <fleeky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> john, i was infact using wave as a google docs replacement for a
>>>>
>>>> while it
>>>>>
>>>>> worked pretty good the only problem i had with it was that i couldnt
>>>>> 'publish' static updates to a front facing page to share with people
>>>>
>>>> who
>>>>>
>>>>> didnt feel like registering on my wave server.
>>>>>
>>>>> an openoffice for wave would be extremely usefull, and could have an
>>>>> extremely large impact imo. wave is also already very very close to
>>>>
>>>> having
>>>>>
>>>>> this funcitonality. etherpad lite sortof already does this, but i kept
>>>>> going back to wave because it was actually more responsive,
>>>>
>>>> featurefull,
>>>>>
>>>>> and actually crashed less.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, John Blossom <jblossom@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had the down-the-road thought just now that I wanted to put into
>>>>>> circulation before I forgot about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the challenges that we will face in developing open source
>>>>
>>>> Wave
>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that Google and others - but mostly Google - are out there using
>>>>>> operational transform technologies also. So far the Google Drive
>>>>
>>>> Realtime
>>>>>>
>>>>>> API hasn't had much impact, but it's being "demoed" successfully
in
>>>>
>>>> Drive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> apps like Docs and Presentations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The advantages of an open source Wave implementation are, of course,
>>>>
>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> people can own their own data and identity management without
>>>>
>>>> having to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rely on a specific vendor's infrastructure. But the flip side of
>>>>
>>>> that
>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that you have to look carefully at infrastructure that integrates
OT
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> understand what you have to do similarly to showcase your
>>>>
>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That brings me to OpenOffice. At some point it will be beneficial
to
>>>>>> consider how the Wave API can enable apps in the OpenOffice suite
to
>>>>
>>>> take
>>>>>>
>>>>>> advantage of OT technologies in Wave and its other various
>>>>
>>>> features. In
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fact, it's not unthinkable that an OpenOffice for Wave variant might
>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> feasible at some point, maintaining a familiar office automation
>>>>
>>>> paradigm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as a user interface for those who relate to that sort of tool but
>>>>
>>>> having
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the power of Wave to drive collaborative document editing, comments,
>>>>>> embedded apps and so on, with Wave data structures underneath the
OO
>>>>>> interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just idle thoughts for now, but if we make good progress over the
>>>>
>>>> next
>>>>>>
>>>>>> several months, it's a sub-project that may help to attract more
>>>>>
>>>>> developers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to Wave technologies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Blossom
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>

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