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From Yuri Z <vega...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Need help evaluating wave for a project
Date Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:06:54 GMT
Here are some links to Wave Summit talks.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Wave+Summit+Talks


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Pratik Paranjape <pratikparanjape@gmail.com
> wrote:

> @Willie I don't think an all pervasive event bus exists in the code, if
> that is what you are looking for. Someone will correct me if
> following explanation is wrong.
>
> The the keystrokes are first seen by the Editor (see EditorImpl), they are
> categorized between commands for annotations
> and text input by a sub handler and given to the underlying structure (see
> ContentDocument and IndexedDocumentImpl) to
> update the model and record the deltas. These deltas are internally
> propogated through the higher order wavelet-wave abstraction.
> The operations coming from server pass through the same set..wavelet-wave
> abstraction -> structured model abstraction (documents)
> -> finally editor. There is a tight integration between editor and model at
> the lowest level through event handlers.
> The progress from document to higher abstraction is foggy in mind atm,
> haven't seen the code for some time, but there is a very nice
> video in Google IO10 that explains it.
>
> Then there is a Websocket based channel
> (see concurrencycontrol.channel.OperationChannel.java). This one comes
> closest to what you
> might have heard about.It  manages communication between server and client,
> adding a buffer in between for cases of lost connectivity.
>
> GWT later added an event bus in it's apis, having nothing to do with Wave
> directly. It was popularized when Ray Ryan gave a talk called
> Best Practices for Aritecting GWT Apps in Google IO 2009. It was around
> the
> same time Wave was being explained, so not sure if you are
> referring to that.
>
> And for my own 2 cents, when I checked the wave code base by the intentions
> of pulling things apart and modular-izing them for one of my
> own projects, the job seemed tough because of tight integration between
> various parts (Editor-CC stack-Wave Model-UI). The whole framework
> will be easier to handle, if you are willing to build on top of Wave model.
> And then Converting it to Scala, that is interesting. In any case, you will
> get most ideas, if you scan around through the whitepapers on the
> wave-protocol site and old Google IO videos from wave section.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think then, you should take a look at
> > the org.waveprotocol.box.server.waveserver.WaveBus interface.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Willie Slepecki <scphantm@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If im reading the documents right, the federation system is the
> transport
> > > system between two wave servers.  in laymans terms, its waves version
> of
> > > SMTP, basically where google tried replacing email servers.  that part
> i
> > > have no interest in (at this time), maybe in the future i will want the
> > > ability to move a wavelet between my cloud and a clients local cloud
> but
> > > thats so far down the road, its not worth looking at right now.
> > >
> > > no, what im talking about is the push pull event bus between the UI and
> > the
> > > server.  The event bus that allows save on key stroke, reaplay (when
> > > rebuilt) and concurrent editing of documents, concurrent group
> > > collaboration between people in concurrent editing of documents, etc.
>  Is
> > > the heart of that system build outside of GWT and GWT simply accesses
> it
> > or
> > > does that part of the system live entirely in GWT.  Its a distinction
> > that
> > > makes a big difference in what im doing and im still trying to figure
> out
> > > which way is up on this thing.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you refer to the Wave Federation Protocol, then yes it is
> > implemented
> > > as
> > > > part of the server. However, federation wasn't tested for a while...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Willie Slepecki <scphantm@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ok, i see what you are doing now.  Well that fits into what i
> wanted
> > to
> > > > do
> > > > > very well.  I don't want my system to be built around wave, i want
> > wave
> > > > to
> > > > > be a component of a much larger system.  In order to do that I will
> > > pull
> > > > > this apart into more fine grained modules and be able to use those
> > > > modules
> > > > > at will within the rest of the system.
> > > > >
> > > > > What about the event bus that was so touted when this was released.
> >  is
> > > > > that part of the protocol that was released or is that built into
> the
> > > GWT
> > > > > interface that your team built?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lastly, is the protocol itself functional?  meaning i intend to
> fork
> > > this
> > > > > and redevelop a large chunk of it in scala to make other parts of
> my
> > > life
> > > > > easier.  If i do that at this point in time am i going to find some
> > > major
> > > > > release in 8 months that brings a major system back online that by
> > that
> > > > > point would be completely incompatible with my code base?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for your help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > Google did not open the source of original Google Wave, but
> instead
> > > it
> > > > > > created a stand alone open source implementation, with some
core
> > > parts
> > > >  -
> > > > > > like the OT implementation - being ported as is. But the client
> was
> > > > > rebuilt
> > > > > > from the scratch.
> > > > > > The current implementation saves all the deltas, so it is
> possible
> > to
> > > > > > implement the feature to replay the wave state to some earlier
> > > > condition,
> > > > > > however it is not implemented yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Willie Slepecki <
> > scphantm@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > is the history replay in the old code repo and just hasn't
been
> > > > ported
> > > > > > yet
> > > > > > > or did google not release it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been looking at the code for several hours now.
 its in
> > > pretty
> > > > > > rough
> > > > > > > shape but good enough to run i guess. I had to fix several
> issues
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > code to get it to compile but it appears to be compiling
> > correctly
> > > > now.
> > > > > >  im
> > > > > > > not very interested in trying to get it to run yet, i just
want
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > its packaged.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but im starting to feel my way around it.  i finally found
the
> > gwt
> > > > > > > interface and have been pulling that apart.  im mainly
trying
> to
> > > > > > determine
> > > > > > > if they implemented the event bus for the save on change
as a
> > > client
> > > > > > system
> > > > > > > or a server system.  right now it looks like both.  but
i will
> > > still
> > > > > play
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > > > You can find the source code at
> > > > > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html
> > > > > > > > The current implementation supports concurrent edition
of the
> > > > > document
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > several users, but there's no implementation for history
> > replay.
> > > > > > > > You can take a look at demo server: waveinabox.net
> > > > > > > > Regarding your needs - if you only need to support
real time
> > > > > concurrent
> > > > > > > > editing, then you might also take a look at ShareJS
> > > > > > > > <http://sharejs.org/>project
> > > > > > > > or Google Realtime API <
> > > > > https://developers.google.com/drive/realtime/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Willie Slepecki <
> > > > scphantm@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am looking into building a sort of collaborative
document
> > > > > > management
> > > > > > > > > application.  I remembered wave from the google
beta days
> > and I
> > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > having two features that just astonished me,
two features
> > that
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > complete my design for this new CMS system im
designing.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the first feature was its concurrent editing
of a document.
> >  I
> > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > presenter creating a new wave, indicating that
it was a
> > > document,
> > > > > > not a
> > > > > > > > > message, sharing it with other users, and then
like 6
> people
> > > > > started
> > > > > > > > > editing the document in different languages at
different
> > > > locations,
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > same time.  I remember the presenter talking
about the
> > control
> > > > bus
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > made that possible and how it was that single
feature that
> > took
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > longest
> > > > > > > > > to get right
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The second feature was the history replay.  he
was able to
> > pull
> > > > up
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > document and click some kind of history button
and a time
> bar
> > > > > similar
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > windows media players showed up, he was then
able to slide
> > the
> > > > bar
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > way to the left to an empty document and replay
each and
> > every
> > > > > change
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > happened to that document one at a time until
all
> > modifications
> > > > > > > > culminated
> > > > > > > > > into the present state of the document.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My memory is fuzzy so i may have gotten the fine
details
> > wrong,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > essence of what those features were are here.
 My question
> is
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > apache
> > > > > > > > > version of this thing, what are the status of
those two
> > > features,
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > the plans for them, and where would i find them
in the old
> > > google
> > > > > > code
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > they havn't been migrated over yet.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks guys
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > You want it fast, cheap, or right.  Pick two!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You want it fast, cheap, or right.  Pick two!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You want it fast, cheap, or right.  Pick two!!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You want it fast, cheap, or right.  Pick two!!
> > >
> >
>

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