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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <>
Subject Re: [wadi-dev] Fwd: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
Date Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:14:26 GMT
Taking another run at this...

What's the issue w/ Geronimo 1.0?  That's almost done, and the last  
thing *that* project needs is more changes at this point.  So really  
- what's the real issue here?

One thing that's different about ASF projects is that there isn't a  
Despot by name.  There are "Despot"-like people by community respect,  
and they simply are able to voice concerns and convince people that  
the way they wish to go is the right way.  You are such a person -  
you can voice your concerns, and we'll discuss and react.

In this case, you just tried to take control - IMO, you can't here at  
the incubator.  In a sense, you are forking it back to Codehaus.   
This would be a terrible outcome.

I didn't know the issues you raised (maybe I should have) and am  
happy to help do what I can to get them fixed.  So, please - re-think  
this and lets get things sorted and squared away now...


(Out of courtesy, I cc-ed the codehaus list, but we really should  
start fixing the confusion by not doing this...)

On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:58 AM, Bill Dudney wrote:

> making sure everyone that is off codehaus is informed of the whole  
> thread...
> Begin forwarded message:
>> From: Jules Gosnell <>
>> Date: December 20, 2005 6:48:14 AM MST
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [wadi-dev] Fwd: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
>> Reply-To:
>> Bill,
>> Thanks for voicing your concerns.
>> I shall consider them carefully.
>> Unfortunately, it is not enough that things are not yet done, but  
>> 'easy' to do, as we have learnt with our Geronimo integrations.
>> Over the last few weeks, I have allowed people to contribute  
>> fairly chaotically to the project's progress. I am now stepping in  
>> to bring some order to this process and ensure that my easy going  
>> attitude does not result in actual damage to the project.
>> I'm sorry if this move upsets you, but it would upset me far more  
>> to see all our good work go to waste at this critical moment.
>> Please bear with me and we will complete the move, when I consider  
>> the time to be right.
>> Thanks,
>> Jules
>> Bill Dudney wrote:
>>> forgot to cc the WADI list
>>> -bd-
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> From: Bill Dudney <>
>>>> Date: December 20, 2005 6:34:17 AM MST
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
>>>> Hi Jules,
>>>> While I agree that we need to be ready to support G1 users I  
>>>> don't  think putting a pause on the move to incubator is the  
>>>> best way to  do that.
>>>> So I have to -1 this approach.
>>>> Let me make a few suggestions/comments;
>>>> 1) Lets update the website one last time @ codehaus from the src  
>>>> in  the incubator - add an entry that says something like  
>>>> 'pardon our  dust we are moving to the incubator'. Lets get our  
>>>> website pushed  out to the incubator. We have space AFAIK at  
>>>> http:// to put the site, it just needs  
>>>> to be  pushed. Jeff & Jim should be able to do that RSN (maybe  
>>>> today?).
>>>> 2) The code at apache is tagged with 'what came from codehaus'  
>>>> so  we can do cross server history, not the most efficient thing  
>>>> in the  world but do able.
>>>> 3) I don't think there was confusion relating to the lists,  
>>>> just  problems getting subscribed. I think that is all worked  
>>>> out now  isn't it, we are all on the apache lists AFAIK.
>>>> 4) JIRA and Wiki are good to go AFAIK and if not its simple to  
>>>> set  them up, we just need someone in charge of making that  
>>>> happen. I'm  glad to take it on if no one else can/wants to.
>>>> 5) Archives are also easy to do.
>>>> I really don't see that putting a pause on moving is going to  
>>>> help  anything WRT getting G1 support up and running. All it  
>>>> will do is  confuse things.
>>>> Frankly this really upsets me to not have a discussion about it   
>>>> first. I understand that there are issues that need to be  
>>>> addressed  but becoming a dictator hardly seems the route to  
>>>> making things  better.
>>>> Here are the issues as I understand them that you are bringing up;
>>>> 1) the G1 support does not work
>>>> 2) we dont' have an asf website that has current info
>>>> 3) we don't have JIRA
>>>> 4) we don't have Wiki
>>>> 5) we don't have Fisheye
>>>> I think all but 1 can be addressed in less than 12 hrs. If the  
>>>> G1  stuff is not working, this coup will not make it better sooner.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -bd-
>>>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 5:55 AM, Jules Gosnell wrote:
>>>>> Guys,
>>>>> I am pressing the pause button on the move to the Geronimo   
>>>>> incubator, until I am happy that everything that I want in  
>>>>> place  is there and that everything else is exactly how I want it.
>>>>> Right now is a very important time for WADI - Geronimo-1.0 is   
>>>>> imminent.
>>>>> We don't have working integrations with Geronimo.
>>>>> Our website is out of date/missing, depending on which server  
>>>>> you  look at.
>>>>> Our CVS history has not been imported into ASF SVN - only the   
>>>>> current versions - so we cannot move forward there, or fix bugs.
>>>>> There is confusion as to which list dev people should be on,  
>>>>> let  alone users.
>>>>> We have not had discussions about JIRA, the Wiki, Fisheye and   
>>>>> anything else that CodeHaus has that ASF has not, or vice versa.
>>>>> We have not considered mailing list archives.
>>>>> etc...
>>>>> Everyone is busy running around cutting the project in half at  
>>>>> the  one time we should be thoroughly together.
>>>>> The Geronimo release notes give as the  
>>>>> location  of the WADI project, and it will be here, in one  
>>>>> piece when our  public start arriving.
>>>>> The chaotic approach to project management has failed.
>>>>> I am awarding myself military command and declaring martial law.
>>>>> This in no way detracts from the stirling work done by those  
>>>>> who  have been sorting out our move to the incubator, for which  
>>>>> I am  very grateful. All that work will bear fruit when we  
>>>>> finally do  move to the incubator in an orderly and well  
>>>>> coordinated manner.
>>>>> Jules
>>>>> P.S.
>>>>> There is no vote here - but a few +1s would not go amiss :-)
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> "Open Source is a self-assembling organism. You dangle a piece of
>>>>> string into a super-saturated solution and a whole operating- 
>>>>> system
>>>>> crystallises out around it."
>>>>> /**********************************
>>>>> * Jules Gosnell
>>>>> * Partner
>>>>> * Core Developers Network (Europe)
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> * Open Source Training & Support.
>>>>> **********************************/
>> -- 
>> "Open Source is a self-assembling organism. You dangle a piece of
>> string into a super-saturated solution and a whole operating-system
>> crystallises out around it."
>> /**********************************
>> * Jules Gosnell
>> * Partner
>> * Core Developers Network (Europe)
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> * Open Source Training & Support.
>> **********************************/

Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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