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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [wadi-dev] Fwd: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
Date Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:11:49 GMT
On Dec 20, 2005, at 9:39 AM, Jules Gosnell wrote:

> Geir,
>
> I understand your concerns.
>
> WADI is still incubator-bound.
>
> I am simply pausing the process to ensure that it is properly  
> coordinated.
>
> I wish you hadn't said the 'F' word....
>

I was thinking of a different f-word at the time, because that's how  
strong I feel about this.  :)

inline...


> more inline :
>
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>> Taking another run at this...
>>
>> What's the issue w/ Geronimo 1.0?  That's almost done, and the  
>> last  thing *that* project needs is more changes at this point.   
>> So really  - what's the real issue here?
>
> I'm not suggesting any changes to geronimo-1.0

whew :)

>
>>
>> One thing that's different about ASF projects is that there isn't  
>> a  Despot by name.  There are "Despot"-like people by community  
>> respect,  and they simply are able to voice concerns and convince  
>> people that  the way they wish to go is the right way.  You are  
>> such a person -  you can voice your concerns, and we'll discuss  
>> and react.
>
> When WADI has completed it's move to ASF it will be run according  
> to ASF custom, but the process is far from complete and the project  
> will be run along CodeHaus guidelines until this is the case.
>
>>
>> In this case, you just tried to take control - IMO, you can't here  
>> at  the incubator.  In a sense, you are forking it back to  
>> Codehaus.   This would be a terrible outcome.
>
> see above ...

How can this be done gradually?  Jump.  it will be ok.  That's what  
your friends are here for.  We're here to help.

>
>>
>> I didn't know the issues you raised (maybe I should have) and am   
>> happy to help do what I can to get them fixed.  So, please - re- 
>> think  this and lets get things sorted and squared away now...
>
> sure, lets get them fixed. Meanwhile, the move is paused.

Don't you see how this means we're hosed?  if we can't move forward  
on the move to get things fixed because the move is paused, we'll  
never get things fixed and thus won't stop being paused.

>
>>
>> geir
>>
>> (Out of courtesy, I cc-ed the codehaus list, but we really should   
>> start fixing the confusion by not doing this...)
>
> No, you did the right thing. Until the move is complete, the  
> codehaus lists are fully functional. The incubator lists will come  
> on line when I declare the move complete.

I assume you will be placing your crown in the vault as this becomes  
a collaborative meritocracy ;)



>
>
> Jules
>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:58 AM, Bill Dudney wrote:
>>
>>> making sure everyone that is off codehaus is informed of the  
>>> whole  thread...
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: Jules Gosnell <jules@coredevelopers.net>
>>>> Date: December 20, 2005 6:48:14 AM MST
>>>> To: dev@wadi.codehaus.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [wadi-dev] Fwd: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
>>>> Reply-To: dev@wadi.codehaus.org
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for voicing your concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I shall consider them carefully.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it is not enough that things are not yet done,  
>>>> but  'easy' to do, as we have learnt with our Geronimo  
>>>> integrations.
>>>>
>>>> Over the last few weeks, I have allowed people to contribute   
>>>> fairly chaotically to the project's progress. I am now stepping  
>>>> in  to bring some order to this process and ensure that my easy  
>>>> going  attitude does not result in actual damage to the project.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry if this move upsets you, but it would upset me far  
>>>> more  to see all our good work go to waste at this critical moment.
>>>>
>>>> Please bear with me and we will complete the move, when I  
>>>> consider  the time to be right.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jules
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Dudney wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> forgot to cc the WADI list
>>>>>
>>>>> -bd-
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill Dudney <bdudney@mac.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 20, 2005 6:34:17 AM MST
>>>>>> To: wadi-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Move to Geronimo Incubator - PAUSED.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jules,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I agree that we need to be ready to support G1 users I   
>>>>>> don't  think putting a pause on the move to incubator is the   
>>>>>> best way to  do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I have to -1 this approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me make a few suggestions/comments;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Lets update the website one last time @ codehaus from the  
>>>>>> src  in  the incubator - add an entry that says something  
>>>>>> like  'pardon our  dust we are moving to the incubator'. Lets  
>>>>>> get our  website pushed  out to the incubator. We have space  
>>>>>> AFAIK at  http:// incubator.apache.org/wadi to put the site,  
>>>>>> it just needs  to be  pushed. Jeff & Jim should be able to do
 
>>>>>> that RSN (maybe  today?).
>>>>>> 2) The code at apache is tagged with 'what came from  
>>>>>> codehaus'  so  we can do cross server history, not the most  
>>>>>> efficient thing  in the  world but do able.
>>>>>> 3) I don't think there was confusion relating to the lists,   
>>>>>> just  problems getting subscribed. I think that is all worked   
>>>>>> out now  isn't it, we are all on the apache lists AFAIK.
>>>>>> 4) JIRA and Wiki are good to go AFAIK and if not its simple  
>>>>>> to  set  them up, we just need someone in charge of making  
>>>>>> that  happen. I'm  glad to take it on if no one else can/wants  
>>>>>> to.
>>>>>> 5) Archives are also easy to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't see that putting a pause on moving is going to   
>>>>>> help  anything WRT getting G1 support up and running. All it   
>>>>>> will do is  confuse things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frankly this really upsets me to not have a discussion about  
>>>>>> it   first. I understand that there are issues that need to  
>>>>>> be  addressed  but becoming a dictator hardly seems the route  
>>>>>> to  making things  better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the issues as I understand them that you are bringing  
>>>>>> up;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) the G1 support does not work
>>>>>> 2) we dont' have an asf website that has current info
>>>>>> 3) we don't have JIRA
>>>>>> 4) we don't have Wiki
>>>>>> 5) we don't have Fisheye
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think all but 1 can be addressed in less than 12 hrs. If  
>>>>>> the  G1  stuff is not working, this coup will not make it  
>>>>>> better sooner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -bd-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 5:55 AM, Jules Gosnell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am pressing the pause button on the move to the Geronimo  
 
>>>>>>> incubator, until I am happy that everything that I want in  

>>>>>>> place  is there and that everything else is exactly how I  
>>>>>>> want it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now is a very important time for WADI - Geronimo-1.0  
>>>>>>> is   imminent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't have working integrations with Geronimo.
>>>>>>> Our website is out of date/missing, depending on which  
>>>>>>> server  you  look at.
>>>>>>> Our CVS history has not been imported into ASF SVN - only  
>>>>>>> the   current versions - so we cannot move forward there, or
 
>>>>>>> fix bugs.
>>>>>>> There is confusion as to which list dev people should be on,
  
>>>>>>> let  alone users.
>>>>>>> We have not had discussions about JIRA, the Wiki, Fisheye  
>>>>>>> and   anything else that CodeHaus has that ASF has not, or  
>>>>>>> vice versa.
>>>>>>> We have not considered mailing list archives.
>>>>>>> etc...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone is busy running around cutting the project in half 

>>>>>>> at  the  one time we should be thoroughly together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Geronimo release notes give wadi.codehaus.org as the   
>>>>>>> location  of the WADI project, and it will be here, in one  

>>>>>>> piece when our  public start arriving.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The chaotic approach to project management has failed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am awarding myself military command and declaring martial law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This in no way detracts from the stirling work done by those
  
>>>>>>> who  have been sorting out our move to the incubator, for  
>>>>>>> which  I am  very grateful. All that work will bear fruit  
>>>>>>> when we  finally do  move to the incubator in an orderly and
 
>>>>>>> well  coordinated manner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jules
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no vote here - but a few +1s would not go amiss :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> "Open Source is a self-assembling organism. You dangle a  
>>>>>>> piece of
>>>>>>> string into a super-saturated solution and a whole operating-
 
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> crystallises out around it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /**********************************
>>>>>>> * Jules Gosnell
>>>>>>> * Partner
>>>>>>> * Core Developers Network (Europe)
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *    www.coredevelopers.net
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> * Open Source Training & Support.
>>>>>>> **********************************/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> "Open Source is a self-assembling organism. You dangle a piece of
>>>> string into a super-saturated solution and a whole operating-system
>>>> crystallises out around it."
>>>>
>>>> /**********************************
>>>> * Jules Gosnell
>>>> * Partner
>>>> * Core Developers Network (Europe)
>>>> *
>>>> *    www.coredevelopers.net
>>>> *
>>>> * Open Source Training & Support.
>>>> **********************************/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> "Open Source is a self-assembling organism. You dangle a piece of
> string into a super-saturated solution and a whole operating-system
> crystallises out around it."
>
> /**********************************
> * Jules Gosnell
> * Partner
> * Core Developers Network (Europe)
> *
> *    www.coredevelopers.net
> *
> * Open Source Training & Support.
> **********************************/
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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