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From "Gavin" <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject RE: Website Layout
Date Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:34:12 GMT
Hi Martin,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 15 August 2008 11:32 AM
> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Website Layout
> 
> Alright Gavin, thanks for your patience in discussing this.

No problem,

> If you can point me at your sources I'll generate the HTML
> and commit the whole lot under
>    http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/forrest
> as you suggest, and work on replacing the existing site
> with the generated docs.

I was working on it from your trunk, so I exported it and zipped it up as
exported.zip in my home dir on people (gmcdonald).

Just to recap, you should put those sources in /site/forrest/ and the
generated html should end up /site/deploy/ or whatever names you want to
call them.

Let me know how you get on.

Gav...

> 
> Martin
> 
> Gavin wrote:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2008 6:32 AM
> >> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Website Layout
> >>
> >> Gavin wrote:
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2008 4:49 AM
> >>>> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Website Layout
> >>>>
> >>>> Gavin wrote:
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>>>> So whilst we are at this level of even-ness (?) it is a good time
to
> >>>> swap it
> >>>>> over and make it live. However, over the next day or two, I will
add
> >>>>> developer docs on how to go about updating the site, altering/adding
> >>>> pages
> >>>>> etc..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me know what you think.
> >>>> Sounds like a plan.
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume we'll commit just the Forrest sources into Subversion
> >>>> and generate the site out of them on people.a.o using a cron
> >>>> job, correct?
> >>> Well, I'm sure various projects do things in slightly different ways.
> >>> However I would not recommend doing any building on people.a.o , and
> is
> >> not
> >>> necessary anyway.
> >>>
> >>> This is how Forrest, xmlgraphics and a few others do it :-
> >>>
> >>> 1. Alter xdocs locally to your needs.
> >>> 2. svn ci to get sources upto date in svn
> >>> 3. locally run 'forrest -f publish.xml build'
> >>> 4. locally run 'forrest -f publish.xml deploy'
> >>> 5. /x1/www/stdcxx.apache.org svn up
> >>>
> >>> That's the general gist, more fully,
> >>>
> >>> Forrest stores its site source files in
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/trunk/site-author/
> >>>
> >>> and the generated site docs go to
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/site/
> >>>
> >>> A cronjob on p.a.o then runs svn up hourly to
> >>> /x1/www/forrest.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> The hourly sync to eos/aurora then picks that up and your updated docs
> >> are
> >>> then live.
> >>>
> >>> Again, with xmlgraphics, site source files stored in
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/
> >>>
> >>> and the generated site docs go to
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/deploy/
> >>>
> >>> /x1/www/xmgraphics.apache.org is svn of that deploy location, no idea
> >> how
> >>> often they run svn up or if it is done manually. Also no idea if they
> >> use
> >>> forrestbot (steps 2 and 3) or whether they svn ci the generated site,
> >> you'd
> >>> have to talk to Jeremias about that.
> >>>
> >>> So , possibly 2 slightly different methods.
> >>>
> >>> I'm happy to help show the way to Forrests' method. And of course I
> will
> >>> continue to be on this list for any help required afterwards. One
> thing
> >> to
> >>> note for others listening, it is necessary to have Apache Forrest
> >> installed
> >>> on your local machine in order to alter the xdocs, test locally, build
> >> and
> >>> then deploy.
> >>>
> >>> There is a renewed talk on infra lists about having a shared zone or
> >>> something else where projects can build sites using
> Forrest/Maven/Anakia
> >>> that would be installed on the zone, the idea I guess is that
> generated
> >>> source files would live there and be copied over to various projects
> >>> /x1/www/*.a.o/ area. I'm not sure how it would work exactly but I'm
> >>> following for now to see how it pans out, or how long it will take.
> Just
> >>> thought I'd mention it, in the meantime we need to do one of the
> above.
> >> I assume you're referring to the thread on Automating parts of
> >> the web site publishing process. I've seen the discussion but
> >> haven't had time to follow it closely enough to benefit from
> >> it.
> >>
> >>> So, here's how I see it for stdcxx :-
> >>>
> >>> Have forrest and site source files where they are currently in
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/forrest/
> >>>
> >>> Have the generated site files in
> >>>
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/deploy/
> >>>
> >>> and 'svn remove' the current content from /site/
> >>>
> >>> The above structure will remove the nasty side effect you currently
> have
> >> of
> >>> forrest source files viewable on the web
> >> (http://stdcxx.apache.org/forrest/)
> >>> doesn't look good.
> >>>
> >>> Then create a cronjob to svn up hourly (or whatever delay you prefer)
> to
> >>> update your /x1/www/stdcxx.apache.org with the updated site files.
> >>>
> >>> That's about it for now, what do you think?
> >> Thanks for the detailed info! The depot structure and the cron
> >> job approach sound reasonable (we already have a cron job running
> >> to periodically update the existing site). My only concern is the
> >> requirement to run Forrest locally on each committer's machine.
> >
> > I understand that.
> >
> >> Do you happen to know the other projects' rationale for checking
> >> the generated sites into Subversion instead of generating their
> >> sites directly on people.a.o?
> >
> > Yes, Infra Policy.
> >
> > It seems that since the site is
> >> generated from sources that already are in Subversion there
> >> should be no reason to version the generated HTML as well, and
> >> being able to update the site without having to have Forrest
> >> install seems like a significant advantage. But given that most
> >> other projects do it differently I suspect I must be missing
> >> some significant disadvantages of the "simpler" approach. Is
> >> there concern with the overhead o projects running Forrest too
> >> often?
> >
> > Imagine 200+ projects all building their sites with
> > forrest/maven/anakia/whatever on p.a.o , all no doubt installing their
> own
> > copy too. The overhead would be massive if it were allowed.
> >
> > Also, generated docs I guess are still files produced by ASF projects,
> they
> > would also differ in their content and structure to the source files. As
> > such having the history would be a benefit.
> >
> > I'm just guessing at that last bit, what I do know is that infra
> currently
> > insists that
> > a) no projects to run builds on infra,
> > b) generated site docs are to be in svn.
> >
> > So, unless you can change that, and perhaps until that infra thread
> produces
> > something - join in as a usecase if you think it worthwile, then I'd go
> with
> > my suggestion.
> >
> > Those that don't contribute to the website docs wont need forrest.
> >
> > fwiw if you used Maven or any other build tool you'd be in the same
> > situation.
> >
> >
> >> FWIW, the way I originally set up this project was to generate
> >> the Forrest site in:
> >>    http://people.apache.org/~sebor/stdcxx/forrest-site/
> >>
> >> The cron job that does the updating is in:
> >>    /people.apache.org:/home/sebor/bin/update-site.sh
> >>
> >
> > Well, I'm not saying remove it , but ...
> >
> > At the end of the day, I've made my recommendation, its up to you guys
> how
> > you want to proceed.
> >
> > I have Forrest installed of course so there is no problem with me
> applying
> > doc patches and generating the site, if one or two others are happy to
> have
> > Forrest on their systems locally, then we don't really have a problem.
> >
> > Gav...
> >
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>> Gav...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
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> 12:00
> >> AM
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
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