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From NoOp <gl...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject Re: [UX][DISCUSS] Default Document Border
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 00:35:30 GMT
On 10/01/2012 08:07 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> KG03 - See comments inline.
> 
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Keith N. McKenna <
> keith.mckenna@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Kevin;
>>
>>
>> Kevin Grignon wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I've read the LibreOffice threads and have a better understanding of the
>>> issues and concerns. Thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> I still maintain my original UX feedback that the page frame adds noise.
>>> In
>>> addition, the current stroke color is rather dark, and can make it
>>> difficult to see the text location indicator, perhaps we could work on the
>>> contrast.
>>>
>>
>> One o the problems I see is that what you consider "noise" others do not.
>> In the past I used charts from a OOo spreasheet embedded into a writer
>> document. I found the page boundary helpful in positioning those charts
>> correctly.
> 
> 
> KG03 - Yes, UI is subjective. I'm glad the boarder was helpful to you those
> times when you positioned charts in the past. Perhaps smart guides would
> have helped realize you goal as well? As I stated, I'm exploring ways to
> reduce the amount of non-content UI or pixels within the editor. A
> content-oriented, modern, light-weight UI is what the community is asking
> for. Everything should be considered. It's important to check our

Can you please point to the survey/study regarding this? I can't seem to
find a link to one in:

<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/DocumentBorder>

I do see this:

" Competitor Study

    MS Office 2003/2007/2010 : Put marks on four corners of page, to
show the boder of documents. "

But no survey/study showing that elimination of the borders is "what the
community is asking for".

This is what Microsoft Word users expect; boarders by default, and an
option to change to corners if the user wishes. It might be useful to see:
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46305> and the attached
PDF showing the features in Word 2010:
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=57287>

Note that:
Microsoft Word 2010 selections are as follows:
o File|Options|Advanced|Show document content|Show text boundaries'
enables text and column borders exactly as it does in A.Oo 3.5.
o 'File|Options|Advanced|Show document content|Show crop marks' removes
the Text Boundaries & replaces them with corner crop marks. Note: you
can have both 'crop marks' and 'text boundaries' enabled at the same
time in Word 2010. This last is *extremely* helpful for those that write
multi-column articles (magazine, news letters, etc).

If A.Oo do make the proposed UI changes, suggestions to make this user
selectable is, IMO, OK. But please be careful in doing so. It will be
(again IMO) if A.Oo were to adopt the same attitude & "compromise" as LO
have chosen to do.


> assumptions, and ask why is something there. Please be open to focusing on
> the broader design problem. I'm trying to explore different paths to
> realize a stated design goal. If you have any other  suggestions or ideas

Your stated design goal per
<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121102> was originally:

"The page boundary does not add value to the document editing
experience. To reduce visual noise, and help the uesr(SIC) focus on
their content, please remove the page boundary all together, or
implement the Symphony approach of page boundary corners only."

Within this thread you've stated that "I still maintain my original UX
feedback that the page frame adds noise."

So given those, I (a user) am unsure what the exact design goal is
(other than to eliminate existing Text Boundaries). My personal
preference would be to keep the boundaries as default & then allow the
user to use corners via a user option *and* text boundaries
simultaneously for column adjustments.

> on how to realize these goals within the page canvas, I'd love to hear from
> you. If you have other goals, then great, share those as well.
...


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