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From Jonas Ruf <>
Subject Re: [UX][DISCUSS] Default Document Border
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 00:39:06 GMT
may be you got something in, you don't want to... just a warning

2012/10/2 NoOp <>:
> On 10/01/2012 08:07 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> KG03 - See comments inline.
>> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Keith N. McKenna <
>>> wrote:
>>> Kevin;
>>> Kevin Grignon wrote:
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> I've read the LibreOffice threads and have a better understanding of the
>>>> issues and concerns. Thanks for sharing.
>>>> I still maintain my original UX feedback that the page frame adds noise.
>>>> In
>>>> addition, the current stroke color is rather dark, and can make it
>>>> difficult to see the text location indicator, perhaps we could work on the
>>>> contrast.
>>> One o the problems I see is that what you consider "noise" others do not.
>>> In the past I used charts from a OOo spreasheet embedded into a writer
>>> document. I found the page boundary helpful in positioning those charts
>>> correctly.
>> KG03 - Yes, UI is subjective. I'm glad the boarder was helpful to you those
>> times when you positioned charts in the past. Perhaps smart guides would
>> have helped realize you goal as well? As I stated, I'm exploring ways to
>> reduce the amount of non-content UI or pixels within the editor. A
>> content-oriented, modern, light-weight UI is what the community is asking
>> for. Everything should be considered. It's important to check our
> Can you please point to the survey/study regarding this? I can't seem to
> find a link to one in:
> <>
> I do see this:
> " Competitor Study
>     MS Office 2003/2007/2010 : Put marks on four corners of page, to
> show the boder of documents. "
> But no survey/study showing that elimination of the borders is "what the
> community is asking for".
> This is what Microsoft Word users expect; boarders by default, and an
> option to change to corners if the user wishes. It might be useful to see:
> <> and the attached
> PDF showing the features in Word 2010:
> <>
> Note that:
> Microsoft Word 2010 selections are as follows:
> o File|Options|Advanced|Show document content|Show text boundaries'
> enables text and column borders exactly as it does in A.Oo 3.5.
> o 'File|Options|Advanced|Show document content|Show crop marks' removes
> the Text Boundaries & replaces them with corner crop marks. Note: you
> can have both 'crop marks' and 'text boundaries' enabled at the same
> time in Word 2010. This last is *extremely* helpful for those that write
> multi-column articles (magazine, news letters, etc).
> If A.Oo do make the proposed UI changes, suggestions to make this user
> selectable is, IMO, OK. But please be careful in doing so. It will be
> (again IMO) if A.Oo were to adopt the same attitude & "compromise" as LO
> have chosen to do.
>> assumptions, and ask why is something there. Please be open to focusing on
>> the broader design problem. I'm trying to explore different paths to
>> realize a stated design goal. If you have any other  suggestions or ideas
> Your stated design goal per
> <> was originally:
> "The page boundary does not add value to the document editing
> experience. To reduce visual noise, and help the uesr(SIC) focus on
> their content, please remove the page boundary all together, or
> implement the Symphony approach of page boundary corners only."
> Within this thread you've stated that "I still maintain my original UX
> feedback that the page frame adds noise."
> So given those, I (a user) am unsure what the exact design goal is
> (other than to eliminate existing Text Boundaries). My personal
> preference would be to keep the boundaries as default & then allow the
> user to use corners via a user option *and* text boundaries
> simultaneously for column adjustments.
>> on how to realize these goals within the page canvas, I'd love to hear from
>> you. If you have other goals, then great, share those as well.
> ...
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