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From Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [UX][DISCUSS] Default Document Border
Date Fri, 28 Sep 2012 01:22:40 GMT
KG01 - See comments inline.


On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 7:54 AM, tj <tj@apache.org> wrote:

> On 9/27/2012 09:45, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I've read the LibreOffice threads and have a better understanding of the
>> issues and concerns. Thanks for sharing.
>>
>> I still maintain my original UX feedback that the page frame adds noise.
>> In
>> addition, the current stroke color is rather dark, and can make it
>> difficult to see the text location indicator, perhaps we could work on the
>> contrast.
>>
>> As for a solution, I feel that we could we could remove the default full
>> frame page boundary, and provide the corner marks as seen in Symphony UI.
>> We could also provide display preferences for users to select no frame,
>> corners only (a la Symphony), or full frame. Heck the user could even
>> select the frame colour or page background if so desired.
>>
>> To support smart object layout when the page frame is not in full frame
>> mode, we could display the frame on demand, when an object being
>> positioned
>> comes in contact with the frame. More broadly, we need smart guides for
>> all
>> possible intersections.
>>
>> See: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=121102<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121102>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin
>>
>>  Kevin,
>
> It's fairly obvious that some users like page framing (I do), and others
> don't. We could add a checkbox under Tools > Options > Writer >  View, in
> the "view" column: ☑ Page frame
>
> If you want to get elaborate, we could put some radio buttons underneath
> this option:
> • Chop marks
> • Corners
> • Borders ...
>

KG01 - yes, this is what I was thinking. How might we proceed? Sketch up
the solution? Seek a developer to implement?


> where that last leads to a dialog such as can be found on "Border" tabs in
> various places, controlling line thickness, color, placement ...
>

KG01 -Interesting. I would say this is separate enhancement. My goal is to
reduce "noise" on the editing page, but be flexible to support contexts of
use where boarders are helpful guides.

This is assuming that users who don't want frame marking would almost never
use it. For users who want quick toggle (if there are any), we could add an
entry to the "Writer > Formatting aids" list for what is shown when NPC is
selected.

KG01 - Makes sense. Great idea.


> Note the importance of setting the defaults such that the current UI
> appearance is unchanged. Users who want changes should have to do a little
> work; those who don't, shouldn't.
>
>
KG01 - This is a difficult call. On one hand, the is significant interest
in a refreshed UI. One that is lighter, more task focused and appears
contemporary. On the other hand, change can be difficult. I understand that
Microsoft Office, which has significant instrumentation, data suggest that
only 5% of users customize their doc editor workspace. The goal should be
to provide the right default, a smart default that addresses the user's
goals and reinforces our design language. We need data to drive this, and
other similar decisions.

KG01 - I will update the work item to include elements of this thread.


> /tj/
>
> I'll move the discussion to the mailing list.
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> <arielch@apache.org>wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Gary,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 06:48:00PM -0800, NoOp wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just as a heads up regarding:
>>>> <http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/**DocumentBorder<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/DocumentBorder>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I recommend following the user issues regarding this 'modernization' in
>>>> the LibreOffice threads:
>>>>
>>>> Initial user thread:
>>>> <
>>>>
>>> http://comments.gmane.org/**gmane.comp.documentfoundation.**
>>> libreoffice.user/16851<http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/16851>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [LO 3.5 - Can't see page margins in Writer]
>>>>
>>>> Thread on the LO ux-advise list:
>>>> <
>>>>
>>> http://comments.gmane.org/**gmane.comp.documentfoundation.**
>>> libreoffice.ux-advise/495<http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.ux-advise/495>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [The "no border text" feature in Writer 3.5 is not complete]
>>>>
>>>> Thread on the LO dev list:
>>>> <
>>>>
>>> http://comments.gmane.org/**gmane.comp.documentfoundation.**
>>> libreoffice.devel/24267<http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.devel/24267>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [No page and Columns boundaries in 3.5]
>>>>
>>>> And it seems that the new additions are starting to irritate users:
>>>> <
>>>>
>>> http://permalink.gmane.org/**gmane.comp.documentfoundation.**
>>> libreoffice.user/17009<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user/17009>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [LibreOffice v3.5.0 -- Header/Footer -- How do I disable this]
>>>>
>>>> As an FYI: I use and test both OOo and LO so I've no particular bias in
>>>> pointing this out on this list. Instead I'm hoping that those that are
>>>> "improving" OOo-dev 3.4.0 consider the *user* reactions to the suggested
>>>> changes of <http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/**DocumentBorder<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/DocumentBorder>
>>>> >
>>>> just in case you plan to actually use the 2009 suggestions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You might be interested in tracking this bug report:
>>> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=121102<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121102>
>>> I took the freedom to quote this mail :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> --
>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>> La Plata, Argentina
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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