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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]
Date Sun, 01 Apr 2012 14:36:30 GMT
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 5:48 AM, Michelle Konzack <> wrote:

> Hello Rob Weir,
> Am 2012-03-31 09:57:48, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> > The parent post was not sent by a list subscriber.  Apache lists are
> > configured to allow anyone to post, including non-subscribers.  If
> someone
> > is not a subscriber their posts are held for moderation.  If they are not
> > spam, I let the post through.  This is true, even if the post is rude.
> > (But if it included a lot of swearing I would not let it through).
> And what about uses adding HUGE attachmenst of several MBytes  to  there
> posts?
> On the OpenOffice List I was bombed arround 40 or 50 times with Mails of
> 4-8 MByte in size and I received the messages on my cellphone.
> If I am right, and I have already  gotten  such  monster  mails  on  the
> <> lists, every one can bomb the whole lists whith such  crap,
> instead of using "pastebin" or other free public file services..
> Reals, I hate such users.  I have to pay 1 Euro/MByte if I am outside of
> the UMTS network and it is definitively not funny.
> Such mails should be blocked in ANY case
I believe they are banned on most Apache lists.  Except for patches
submitted on the dev lists we don't really see many file attachments.  Some
even say we ban too much.

> Now, let's look at it from the user's perspective, and have some sympathy.
> Absolutely NOT.


> > Their first choice was not to send a note to this list.  Their post comes
> > at the end of a long chain of failures and frustrations, being bounced
> > around by Dell and Amazon, not figuring out OpenOffice, probably not
> > finding a good answer searching Google or on our website.
> Is the bouncing of Dell and Amazon the fault of LibreOffice?
It is not a question about blame.  Remember, even an articulate user who
understands how lists work and can fully explain their question could still
have been responsible for causing the problem they are seeing in the
OpenOffice configuration.

> > A) First, since the original poster is not subscribed to the list, he is
> > not receiving any of the responses, unless he was explicitly copied on
> the
> > response.
> If he does not get an response, why does he post?
Good question.  I don't know where these users are coming from and how they
were directed to the list.  The most obvious path would be the homepage, but the "get help" link takes them here:

But that entry for the Users List clearly directs them to subscribe, even
makes it easy for them.  And it does have an easy link for them to post
without subscribing.

So I assume there is a link someplace on the web that encourages users to
send posts to this list without subscribing.  Of course, if we can find it
we can fix it ;-)

> > B) If the user does subscribe, they will likely soon be frustrated by
> > unrelated questions and answers, but be unable to unsubscribe themselves
> > without assistance.
> He should make a driver-license or a weapon-license for the Internet :-P
There will always be a percentage of users who are total novices.  Everyone
has to start someplace.  I don't think we (the Apache OpenOffice project)
can avoid their needs entirely.  After all, the new users of today is the
power user (and recommender) of the program tomorrow.  The real question
is:  how do we (the Apache OpenOffice project) best handle support for this
user segment?  Mailing list?  Forums?  Something else?

> > So we all want users to be able to resolve their issues, without
> > unnecessary complications.  I think the support forums are a much better
> > place for users to raise such questions.
> Right, they should post on Web-Forums and not bother mailinglists
> > -Rob
> Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
>    Michelle Konzack
> --
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>   Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux
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