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From Hagar Delest <>
Subject Re: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]
Date Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:12:09 GMT
Le Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:08:39 -0700, NoOp <> a écrit :
> On 03/31/2012 01:40 PM, Hagar Delest wrote:
>> ... On the former OOo
>> mailing list, users were quite used to CC OP when not subscribed IIRC
> Sorry, but you'd be wrong Hagar... the OOo list (user and discuss) is
> full of worthless to-and-fro electrons about 'good ways' if any, to
> reliably spot 'Moderated' posts. You should know that as you've posted
> on the OOo list (and thanks for doing so) for a few years. Could it be
> that you just popped in when a forum user needed added help?

I may be wrong but my feeling was that in the end, the filter trick was quite used.
And no, there was no preference about help given, I replied only for trivial questions that
had already a good fix in the forum or the need of screenshots, especially for the spell check

> And there is the key... "(he has to register the forum whereas he was
> expecting a direct answer from the list)". So after all the wasted time,
> effort, patience of OOo responders attempting to sort out the
> subscribe/unsubscribe issue, it still comes down to: it's perfectly OK
> to have the requirement for posters to register (subscribe) to the
> forum, but hey, anyone can post to the user lists without ever subscribing.

That's a choice, that's all. We could have allowed guest posts in the forum, it would have
been a real mess then, that's why it is not allowed.
If you allow un-subscribed messages to the list, then be prepared to answer (and tag) them.
Else, just make clear that's impossible.

>> What would be the list then? A place for somehow advanced users only?
> What is the forum then: A place for advanced users only?

Ah, good point, had never thought about that. Then, yes, we have made that choice. And the
result is a quite nice place, without the noise we can find on a ML. Look at the topics, they
are all linked to a relevant question. Plenty of them are duplicates of course but the reply
is always neat: one post is enough to point to the relevant fix. If additional comments needed,
others can contribute. But there are not tons of mail coming.

>> But is it really the kind of support the community wants? Some
> Yes IMO. Why is it good for the gander but not the goose?


>> users don't want to use forums, does it means that they are on their
>> own? You're dealing with a low level user base with OOo. The public
> No, idealy means that the "user" will need to do exactly the same as
> when they wish to ask a question on your forum; subscribe/register
> before doing so. If a 'user' doesn't wish to use forums, then they are
> very welcome on the lists, providing that they understand what the list
> is, and subscribe before posting.

Agreed. I think that there should be a small wiki page explaining low level users what is
a mailing list, that messages are public and indexed by search engines. Don't know if there
is already something like that (similar to what can be found on netiquette).

> Really? You started posting on the OOo list in 2009... the bulk of posts
> you made start&  continue with links/references to the forums. That is
> quite OK&  I very much appreciate your contribution&  excellent advise.
> However I'd have to look real hard to find any of your posts to an
> 'unsubscribed' or 'Moderated' user on the OOo user list.
>    So in all fairness, I do not think that you've delt with the
> 'unsubscribed' OOo list user supporters that became *highly frustrated*
> with the subscribe/unsubscribe issue.

Indeed, I've learned about the moderated header rather late. I remember from the date I set
up filters in TB to have CC the OP when non subscribed. So I may have missed all of them before
and also after the bug appeared (I discovered it only few days ago, as you may have noticed
from my mail in another topic in this list). So I may have participated to frustration of
non subscribed users. Since I rarely replied to the mailing list, I never questioned myself
about the seemingly disappearance of the non subscribed users according to the TB filter.
My bad.


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