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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]
Date Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:42:59 GMT
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <
dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:

> Fioretti's auto-replier idea is more interesting than a bounce with
> instructions to non-subscribers.  It in effect makes a moderated-in
> non-subscriber an automatic subscriber to the thread which they have
> initiated, and to only that thread.  I think that such a mechanism should
> notify the OP that is happening and provide other information as well.
>
> It is an intriguing proposal.  I am not so sure about the edge cases, but
> they can't be as messy as what happens now in reality.
>
>

Can anyone thing of an end user product with a user base the size of
OpenOffice that is successful doing user support via an email list?

The all-to-all paradigm seems doomed to suffer from information scaling
problems, as well as the obvious signal/noise problems and the
disproportionate impact of a handful of novice users without list skills.

Marco's ideas sound like a different list paradigm that might work, but
would require some custom coding.

Another option is to consider that there are more off-tue-shelf tools
available for support than just forums and mailing lists.  Collaborative
Q&A sites like StackExchange give a lot more ability for the community to
police itself, rating question and answers up or down, tagging questions,
a better search interface, cross linking of questions, etc.

-Rob




>  - Dennis
>
> PS: Readers should not presume that there are unlimited resources
> available to others.  The extent to which ASF is operated by volunteers
> with a wide range of different skills (collectively, not necessarily
> individually) is quite remarkable.
>
> [From one moderator to another, here]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 08:28
> To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:11 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti@nexaima.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sat, March 31, 2012 3:57 pm, Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> > > What do you think? What is the purpose of this ooo-users list compared
> > > to the support forums?  On some project communications we advertise
> both
> > > as equal support avenues for users to raise problems.
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > email vs forums is an almost religious issue. IMO, one if not THE purpose
> > of ooo mailing list is to provide users with support ALSO from those
> > volunteers who will never ever use forums because they like email better
> > and since they aren't paid they're free to say no to forums, period.
> >
> >
> But for the people having problems, like with the previous thread, I don't
> think it is a religious issue.  They are not expressing a strong preference
> for the list.  They are just looking for help and for unknown reasons they
> ended up here.  But they could just as well have ended up elsewhere.  For
> example, we get user support questions to ooo-dev as quite a few to the
> bugzilla admin address (!).
>
>
> > This is just my opinion, feel free to ignore it, it's no problem, but for
> > heaven's sake:
> >
> > > However, I think a user that is in this state is not best served by
> > > sending a note to this list.
> > > A) First, since the original poster is not subscribed to the list, he
> is
> > > not receiving any of the responses, unless he was explicitly copied on
> > the
> > > response.
> >
> > please do ban immediately from this list whoever tries to propose or
> > practice even here the "sending again to unsubscribed user" idiocy that
> > plagued the OOo lists for a decade, details here for those who ignore the
> > background:
> >
> >
> >
> http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/
> >
> > The Apache foundation should have inside enough skills and/or money to
> > implement the autoresponder trick I've explained in that post and, many
> > times before that, on the OOo lists.
> >
> >
> The autoresponder thing sounds interesting.  So you don't allow any
> non-suscriber traffic.  Any posts from non-susbcribers get an automatic
> response that presumably outlines their support options, tells them they
> would need to subscribe first if they want to post to the ooo-users list,
> maybe gives some hints for writing useful support request posts, etc.
>
> I think that would be an improvement.   What do others think?
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > If nobody wants to provide support by email, and everybody wants to use
> > the forum, no problem, close the list and go for the forum. But if
> support
> > via mailing list is needed hire any decent programmer for a day or two to
> > implement the autoresponder I proposed, and then forget the whole issue.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Marco
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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