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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]
Date Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:21:10 GMT
Oh, I have also seen lists that will ensure only a single copy is sent when one of the addressee
e-mail addresses matches one of a list subscriber.

I haven't noticed that recently.  I suppose the use-case conflict is when there are those
who file material differently depending on whether a message was sent directly to them.  My
e-mail client will still allow me to sort incoming by a rule that recognizes when I am directly
mentioned as an addressee, even if it is from a list I follow.  

[So there are more workflow cases here and one size still does not fit all.]
 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [] 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 09:07
Subject: RE: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]

Fioretti's auto-replier idea is more interesting than a bounce with instructions to non-subscribers.
 It in effect makes a moderated-in non-subscriber an automatic subscriber to the thread which
they have initiated, and to only that thread.  I think that such a mechanism should notify
the OP that is happening and provide other information as well.  

It is an intriguing proposal.  I am not so sure about the edge cases, but they can't be as
messy as what happens now in reality.

 - Dennis

PS: Readers should not presume that there are unlimited resources available to others.  The
extent to which ASF is operated by volunteers with a wide range of different skills (collectively,
not necessarily individually) is quite remarkable.

[From one moderator to another, here]

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [] 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 08:28
Subject: Re: A moderator's view of this list [was: Re: I Hate Your Product]

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:11 AM, M. Fioretti <> wrote:

> On Sat, March 31, 2012 3:57 pm, Rob Weir wrote:
> > What do you think? What is the purpose of this ooo-users list compared
> > to the support forums?  On some project communications we advertise both
> > as equal support avenues for users to raise problems.
> Rob,
> email vs forums is an almost religious issue. IMO, one if not THE purpose
> of ooo mailing list is to provide users with support ALSO from those
> volunteers who will never ever use forums because they like email better
> and since they aren't paid they're free to say no to forums, period.
But for the people having problems, like with the previous thread, I don't
think it is a religious issue.  They are not expressing a strong preference
for the list.  They are just looking for help and for unknown reasons they
ended up here.  But they could just as well have ended up elsewhere.  For
example, we get user support questions to ooo-dev as quite a few to the
bugzilla admin address (!).

> This is just my opinion, feel free to ignore it, it's no problem, but for
> heaven's sake:
> > However, I think a user that is in this state is not best served by
> > sending a note to this list.
> > A) First, since the original poster is not subscribed to the list, he is
> > not receiving any of the responses, unless he was explicitly copied on
> the
> > response.
> please do ban immediately from this list whoever tries to propose or
> practice even here the "sending again to unsubscribed user" idiocy that
> plagued the OOo lists for a decade, details here for those who ignore the
> background:
> The Apache foundation should have inside enough skills and/or money to
> implement the autoresponder trick I've explained in that post and, many
> times before that, on the OOo lists.
The autoresponder thing sounds interesting.  So you don't allow any
non-suscriber traffic.  Any posts from non-susbcribers get an automatic
response that presumably outlines their support options, tells them they
would need to subscribe first if they want to post to the ooo-users list,
maybe gives some hints for writing useful support request posts, etc.

I think that would be an improvement.   What do others think?


> If nobody wants to provide support by email, and everybody wants to use
> the forum, no problem, close the list and go for the forum. But if support
> via mailing list is needed hire any decent programmer for a day or two to
> implement the autoresponder I proposed, and then forget the whole issue.
> HTH,
> Marco
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