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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Old OO.o Mailing Lists
Date Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:14:01 GMT
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Patrick Durusau <> wrote:
> Rob,
> On 11/02/2011 07:48 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Michael Adams<>
>>  wrote:
>>> Who now owns the website domain name?
>>> What i am really asking is, how easy would it be to set up a temporary
>>> forwarder for emails to a moderator from and
>>> If you own the A record and the mail server
>>> it is easy.
>>> My main concern stems from the fact that together they still generate
>>> as much if not more mail/queries than this list.
>> Have yous seen the user list traffic lately?  Seems to be mainly
>> out-of-the-office notifications and users confused about how to
>> unsubscribe.  That leads to a death spiral for a list, as more of this
>> noise drives more people to unsubsbcribe.
>> In any case, we need to help users resusbcribe to the new list if they
>> want to continue participation.  The old list is not coming down
>> immediately, like this week or anything.  So we have time for an
>> orderly migration.
> What would you suggest as an orderly migration path? From what I am reading
> on this list, the old lists are simply going to die, following messages
> (already sent?) that users need to re-subscribe to the @apache lists. (I
> forebear commenting on that strategy, it is the official one and unlikely to
> change.)

Orderly migration would be:

1) Member of the Apache OpenOffice project set up new mailing lists on
the Apache infrastructure and assign moderators.  We've done that.

2) We send out notes to the legacy OOo lists inviting them to join the
new lists.  The intent was to send two notes.  The first one, which
you've already seen, gives the background on the migration,
instructions on how to migrate, but is not especially urgent.  For
example, we're giving no "drop dead" date on the list shut down.  It
is an early "head's up".  Honestly,  we don't know the exact shut down
date yet.  It really depends on Oracle.  When we get a better idea of
the exact shut down date then we'll send a more urgent note with that
information.  But it might come with little notice, maybe only a week.

3) We're also in the progress of migrating over the OOo wiki and
website.  We're close to completing that.  When that is done we can
search for all references to the legacy mailing lists and replace them
with references to the new lists.

4) We're looking into the possibility of forwarding emails sent to the
legacy lists to a bot that would automatically respond with a note
pointing the user to the new lists.  Debate on the ooo-dev list is how
much we can/should automate this.  If we automate too much, e.g.,
forwarding all messages, then we're also forwarding the spam, the
out-of-the-office notices, the "how do I unsubscribe" notes, etc.
Personally I'd like to leave the spam behind us.

> Question: Should someone ask Oracle for the subscriber list? If we had that
> list, does Apache policy allow us to subscribe those subscribers to the new
> Apache lists?

We've decided to take an opt-in approach, in order to avoid bringing
over the spammers, but also in recognition of European data protection

> Would impact users' mailing filters but some things can't be helped.

Yes, users will need to update any filters in their mail client.
That, as well as subscribing to the new list, is a one time task.  I'm
certain that most users could accomplish both tasks in less time than
it took you to write your note, or me to respond to it ;-)  Of course,
some users may have forgotten how they set up their filters initially.
 But I'm sure if they asked for help on the new list, they would get
good responses.

> Hope you are having a great week!
> Patrick
> PS: As an alternative, that is if Apache policy does not allow the mass
> re-subscription approach, we could view this as an opportunity for some of
> those interested in ODF to broadcast the move to Apache. Something suitable
> on the homepages or similar locations of Oracle, IBM, MS and other entities
> might be a nice touch. A little PR for Apache and getting people to notice
> the new locations/mailing lists, etc. Something for everyone. (Above my
> paygrade but the large vendors talk to each other all the time so I leave
> that conversation up to them.)

We're trying to publicize it.  I think the most obvious place for
existing subscribers to hear the news is via a post to the lists.
That should reach 100% of current list subscribers, right?

We've put other notices up on the home page:    When we get a better indication of the
exact date for the list shut down it would make sense to get the
message out there and more broadly.


> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
> Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
> Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
> Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)
> Another Word For It (blog):
> Homepage:
> Twitter: patrickDurusau
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