From ooo-users-return-120-apmail-incubator-ooo-users-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Mon Oct 3 18:12:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BD32E9363 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 59570 invoked by uid 500); 3 Oct 2011 18:12:46 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-users-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 59474 invoked by uid 500); 3 Oct 2011 18:12:46 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-users@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 59466 invoked by uid 99); 3 Oct 2011 18:12:45 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:12:45 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [68.230.241.148] (HELO fed1rmfepo203.cox.net) (68.230.241.148) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:12:36 +0000 Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmfepo203.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20111003181216.MXGJ3768.fed1rmfepo203.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 14:12:16 -0400 Received: from localhost ([72.208.245.84]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id gJC51h00Z1pz3GQ04JCGP2; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:12:16 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020209.4E89FB00.0068,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=SY2XRgc63M2um40EL4S0/fuIrYAFqihPM0CLA74YKc4= c=1 sm=1 a=wom5GMh1gUkA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=BK4bquC1mf0EObsaxwbDYw==:17 a=-hyCGDrDAAAA:8 a=g4Q3Dj5PIk6zd2xb4sIA:9 a=xg49SXlA8TCN7NliGgcA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=8FlsFEAKPwIHMAhBis8A:9 a=BK4bquC1mf0EObsaxwbDYw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:12:07 -0700 From: Robert Holtzman To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Forum outage Message-ID: <20111003181207.GA19919@cox.net> References: <352436a8-8036-4e36-a30c-b3cc70239b48@zimbra60-e10.priv.proxad.net> <4E85A443.8010209@googlemail.com> <4E85A656.20204@gmail.com> <4E85BE35.9080604@gmail.com> <4E85EFCA.9080005@optonline.net> <20111001201333.GC7809@cox.net> <4E88AA73.90408@t-online.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="h31gzZEtNLTqOjlF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4E88AA73.90408@t-online.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) --h31gzZEtNLTqOjlF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 02, 2011 at 08:16:19PM +0200, Andreas S=EF=BF=BDger wrote: > Am 01.10.2011 22:13, Robert Holtzman wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 07:47:31PM +0200, Andreas S=C3=A4ger wrote: > >>Am 30.09.2011 18:35, Doug wrote: > >>>If anybody cares, I *hate* forums. With a list, you get a bit of > >>>everything, > >> > >>If it is an emotional question then it is about the end user's > >>emotions rather than yours. > >>End user support by mailing lists simply does not work. The > >>acceptance is extremely low. Same with the overall quality of > >>service due to the technical restrictions. > > > >Could you please expand on your objection to mailing lists? > > >=20 > Mailing lists are perfect when you have to be sure that a closed > group of co-workers share the same information at any time. > This has nothing to do with end user support. > I know the mailing lists for end users of OOo since many years. The > quality of service is very poor. Lots of wrong/missing/misleading > answers, very high noise level, no screenshots, no search facility, > no text formatting, not even decent hyperlinks and most importantly: > no administration. Every piece of spam and bullshit has been copied > to all subscribers when you read it, so there is nothing to move, to > fix, to remove, which on the other hand makes a mailing list > superior for closed work groups with a high level of liability. The things you're ranting about, with the exception of screen shots, have nothing to do with whether it's a forum or list. Screen shots can be worked around on a list with the use of a pastebin. As far as search facilities, it depends on what list. Some have exellent ones. Every list I subscribe to has hyperlinks.=20 >=20 > > > >Again, could you please expand on your opinion? > > >=20 > On user.services.openoffice.org you won't find a single single spam > posting, a single off topic thread, duplicate, unsubscribe rant, > heavy trolling, meta-topic about using the forum, no violation of > netiquette or forum rules that survives longer than one or two > hours. > Instead you can find the answers for hundreds of frequently asked > questions with screenshots, hyperlinks, clearly structured and > formatted tutorials and example documents. Depends on the forum just as it depends on the list you're talking=20 about. I have no idea what you're going on about. I think you're either a troll or you just like to rant. Either way, be my guest. --=20 Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch,=20 check the price of the beer. 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