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From Jean Weber <jeanwe...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Alienating users
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2012 01:57:06 GMT
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:33, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Jean Weber <jeanweber@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 06/03/2012, at 8:26, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Jean Weber <jeanweber@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Moving this to Marketing, because I think the problem will end up being a
marketing and communications one.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 06:36, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't equate any amount of user inconvenience with "alienating
>>>>> users."  To suggest this is pure hyperbole, divorced from reality.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we use the term "alienate" differently. I used it to mean "Cause
(someone) to become unsympathetic or hostile." User inconvenience causes many people to become
unsympathetic or hostile. They may, or may not, be irritated enough to switch to an alternative
program. The fact that they stay with a program they hate doesn't mean they are not alienated.
I'm sure you are aware of how many MS Office users are "unsympathetic or hostile" to the program
they use.
>>>>
>>>> This observation is not "pure hyperbole, divorced from reality" -- it is
reality.
>>>>
>>>> And you should know perfectly well that some sectors of the media will gleefully
seize upon the issue as a major failure of AOO, regardless of whether it's "business as usual"
for other software and even though it is in fact a relatively minor issue. Bad publicity is
not the end of the world, either, but it's not going to help us, and we need to be prepared.
>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft breaks their plugins with every release and requires
>>>>> reinstall.  They seem to manage to preserve a non-negligible market
>>>>> share. Many programs do this.  Some do better, some check for
>>>>> compatibility and enable some but not all extensions.  I suppose if
>>>>> the Mozilla developers said that they had to bread the compatibility
>>>>> checking code in a release, that some project members might resort to
>>>>> hyperbole about alienating users and say that it was unacceptable.
>>>>> But not that their unacceptable solution is just life as usual for
>>>>> OpenOffice, since we don't do compatibility checks on upgrade.   And
>>>>> what you call unacceptable in OpenOffice is just life as usual for MS
>>>>> Office.
>>>>>
>>>>> A little perspective goes a long way.  This is not the end of the
>>>>> world.  Not even close.  I recommend dealing with it with user
>>>>> education.
>>>>
>>>> I hope the user education actually reaches the users, preferably before they
find their setup destroyed. I don't know how to best do that, given that most of our users
are unlikely to see (or pay attention to) any notices.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And there you go again with the hyperbole.  What setup is being
>>> destroyed?  I am not aware of any plan to wipe out the user's profile.
>>> The only issue I know of is the inability of AOO 3.4 to read data
>>> related to installed extensions.  Such extensions will need to be
>>> reinstalled.  But your other preferences and settings, where have you
>>> seen that they will be lost?  Can you point me to a BZ issue?
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>
>> Speaking of alienation, Rob, your habit of seizing upon some poorly worded phrase
and proceeding to deliberately misunderstand or misconstrue it and then both change the subject
and insult the writer is rather alienating -- or al least demotivating -- to other team members.
That  may have won you points in college debates, but it's a very poor way to work in a team.
I can deal with that sort of nonsense, but I really have better things to do with my time.
>>
>
> Jean, if you have a bug then please report it in BZ.  That is where
> bugs belong.  That is what we are using to prioritize bugs.  That is
> the specific procedure we've agreed on for requesting and approving
> 3.4 release blocking issues.  I don't think this is an unreasonable
> request.
>
> However, if you do not actually do not have such a bug, then feel free
> to complain about me instead, for whatever satisfaction that brings
> you. Actually it does not even need to be an either/or thing.  You can
> report an issue in BZ and complain about me as well if that floats
> your boat.   My sole concern is to ascertain whether you actually have
> an issue to report.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob

My point is the necessity to communicate clearly, and early, to users
about a situation they are going to encounter. On the original thread
you finally gave a plain-English explanation to clear up
misconceptions. Had you done that earlier, instead of sniping at me
and Dennis and Larry and treating us like adversaries rather than
members of the team, it would have been helpful and avoided a lot of
wasted time, much of it yours.

--Jean

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