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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Aoo logo draft
Date Sun, 18 Dec 2011 03:23:51 GMT
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Graham Lauder <g.a.lauder@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 Dec 2011 02:38:18 Shane Curcuru wrote:
>> One specific comment:
>>
>> On 2011-12-11 7:50 AM, Graham Lauder wrote:
>> ...snip...
>>
>> > We, as in the project, neither had the cajones (or in my case didn't know
>> > that whatever is set in stone, isn't actually.)  to go to the board or
>> > IPMC or whoever and say:  "These are the reasons we need to NOT have
>> > apache in front of OpenOffice.org!"
>>
>> Including Apache as a prefix to the name is required, period.  This is
>> one of the invariants of any project that the ASF hosts.
>>
>> Given the fact that we have lots of new energy and opportunities ahead,
>> plus the fact that this PPMC runs the existing openoffice.org domain
>> (arguably, one of the biggest marketing assets from OOo land), I think
>> there is a lot to be happy about, even if the actual product/project
>> name does need to change.
>>
>> - Shane, VP, Brand Management
>
> The statement that has been repeated on a number of occasions is:
> in the ASF "Nothing is immutable".
>
> This particular issue needs to be mutable.
>
> My reasons are as follows:
> Apache hasn't dealt with any other consumer end products in the past, it
> doesn't have a profile in the consumer market space.  If I walked into Times
> Square in NY or Viaduct Basin in Auckland or The Brandenburg Gate in Berlin
> and asked 200 random people to name an Apache product, what sort of answers
> would I get.  If I asked "Do you recognise either of these names,
> OpenOffice.org and Apache Software foundation."
>
> What do you think the answers would be and how many would show recognition and
> what of?  I think I can predict, but I don't know, but I would be prepared to
> take clipboard in hand, do the hard yards and find out.
>

If you're just looking for name recognition, the key bit is
"OpenOffice".  The ".org" part of that is not necessary for
recognition.  We've seen that when we looked at data such as Google
search queries and Wikipedia queries.  "OpenOffice" is what the users
are remembering, not "OpenOffice.org".  And I seriously doubt that
users will fail to recognize OpenOffice merely because we put the word
"Apache" in front of it.

> Secondly in terms of negative brand image, is the Apache infrastructure
> capable of serving up just shy of 300,000 downloads an hour, for months on
> end) and that approx 130 Mb per download.   We have had complaints about
> bandwidth usage by the extensions site, demand for  which is miniscule by
> comparison
>

This question came up when OpenOffice was originally proposed for
incubation at Apache. We did the math at that time.  It did not look
like it would be a problem.  Of course, no one expects to do this from
a single server. We'd use a mirror network.  The extension site does
not.  At least not yet, but who knows, once Gavin is done with it ;-)

> So the question is when the servers choke when we do our first release
> (As Suns servers did for about 4 or 5 days after 3.0):  Whose brand is going
> to take the hammering? Obviously because people will come to download OOo, it
> will be that brand that takes flack, not  Apache.
>

And what if Bono publicly endorses Apache OpenOffice in a music video?

I don't see the value of debating the brand impact of unlikely events.
 And as you mention, there were hiccups after the 3.0 release with
sever capacity.  The problem was addressed.  The world did not end.
The brand survived.

> These things are the reality of a successful consumer space product.
> Maybe  Apache's brand awareness will lift by hanging on to OOo's
> coattails, I don't know, but other than "It's Policy!" there is no good reason
> to prefer Apache as prefix over tagline, either works for the  Apache brand,
> but the tagline doesn't dilute OOo's brand as badly as the prefix does.
>

Of course, you are correct, that if we were not at Apache we'd have no
good reason for calling it "Apache OpenOffice".  Similarly, if
OpenOffice.org was not sponsored by Oracle we'd have no good reason to
have their logo on all the webpages and the install. But we are at
Apache, so following Apache policies is part of what it means to be an
Apache project.

Apache is not ruled by dictators.  There are VP's, like Shane, with
specific responsibilities, but VP's answer to the Board of Directors
who are elected by Apache Members.  So there is always the opportunity
for things to change, albeit not very quickly.

However, in terms of return on investment, where investment here is
your time and the time of other volunteers who want to help with
marketing, I think trying to change Apache policy in this regard would
require a  investment in time with an uncertain outcome.  Given that,
I wonder if there are other things we should be focusing on here and
now, instead?

-Rob

>
> Cheers
> GL
>
>
>
>

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