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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: Aoo logo draft
Date Sun, 18 Dec 2011 13:08:55 GMT

On Dec 18, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Sunday 18 Dec 2011 17:26:05 Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Graham,
> Hi Dave
>>> My reasons are as follows:
>>> Apache hasn't dealt with any other consumer end products in the past, it
>>> doesn't have a profile in the consumer market space.  If I walked into
>>> Times Square in NY or Viaduct Basin in Auckland or The Brandenburg Gate
>>> in Berlin and asked 200 random people to name an Apache product, what
>>> sort of answers would I get.  If I asked "Do you recognise either of
>>> these names, and Apache Software foundation."
>>> What do you think the answers would be and how many would show
>>> recognition and what of?  I think I can predict, but I don't know, but I
>>> would be prepared to take clipboard in hand, do the hard yards and find
>>> out.
>> They would recognize OpenOffice more than Apache and
> Do you have end user research to back that assertion up, not that I'm 
> disagreeing with the statement, just that saying that without meaningful 
> research is simply a statement of opinion.  I have made long and boring 
> dissertations in the past as to why the .org is on the end and why it should 
> stay as part of the brand.  The reasons are provably good even if people more 
> often than not, drop the org in conversation and frankly I don't want to go 
> into them at this hour.  The point  I was making was that research needs to be 
> done with those who at the end of the day will be using the software to make 
> any decision meaningful.

No, I only have anecdotal evidence of how non-developer people respond in conversation.

>>> Secondly in terms of negative brand image, is the Apache infrastructure
>>> capable of serving up just shy of 300,000 downloads an hour, for months
>>> on end) and that approx 130 Mb per download.   We have had complaints
>>> about bandwidth usage by the extensions site, demand for  which is
>>> miniscule by comparison
>> The ASF uses many of the same mirrors that does. It is just
>> done differently.
> It was the mirrors that were the problem, before they could mirror the 
> software, they had to download it first.  While they were trying to download 
> it they didn't have it on the mirrors so there was only place to get it for 
> everybody who had been waiting in eager anticipation. 

We can wait to release the link to the world until the mirrors are seeded.

>> Keep in mind that well over half of all web servers are Apache HTTPD
>> Servers!
> And all of the mirrors serving OOo were the same, not sure what that has to do 
> with the price of scrap metal on tuesday.  

Maybe we'll need to do something special and cloud-based .... plan for the problem.


>>> So the question is when the servers choke when we do our first release
>>> (As Suns servers did for about 4 or 5 days after 3.0):  Whose brand is
>>> going to take the hammering? Obviously because people will come to
>>> download OOo, it will be that brand that takes flack, not  Apache.
> The comment here wasn't so much about Apache infrastructure but about which 
> brand would take the flack in case of a repeat of the 3.0 issues
>> If you gather some statistics about that event then once we know what the
>> size of the next release might be then calculations can be made.
> Stefan Taxnet would probably be your best bet in getting the info with regard 
> to this.  I should point out that we were all taken by surprise, we knew it 
> was going to be popular and that there was considerable anticipation in the 
> market, but it was unprecedented.  It never happened again. The 300,000 
> downloads an hour continued for months however. 
>>> These things are the reality of a successful consumer space product.
>>> Maybe  Apache's brand awareness will lift by hanging on to OOo's
>>> coattails, I don't know, but other than "It's Policy!" there is no good
>>> reason to prefer Apache as prefix over tagline, either works for the 
>>> Apache brand, but the tagline doesn't dilute OOo's brand as badly as the
>>> prefix does.
>> You have been wanting to form a marketing campaign. You are welcome. Please
>> join in the discussions on ooo-dev. Ross is working on the Open Letter, a
>> long running thread.
> I'm talking about a campaign, not dribs and drabs and breadcrumbs.  All of 
> what is being done is reactionary, we are not defining the conversation, there 
> is no strategy and there is no point me going there and giving my views:  that 
> they are wasting precious energy for no payback.  We will go to the market 
> when we are ready and when we have something to talk about and when we can 
> shape the message to suit us.  
> First we need a strategy and a brand, then we need to shape our message to 
> target markets and define our delivery (and seek funding if necessary) 
> Because of timing my no.1 priority right now is exhaust every avenue seeking 
> to retain the brandname as  If that is immutable then a 
> completely new name... Hmmm it comes to mind that when we get the Symphony 
> Code, that a nice nod in that direction would be to call it Concerto.  Apache 
> Concerto, now that I like.
> Sorry brainstorm mode kicked in.  :)
> Cheers
> GL
>> Best Regards,
>> Dave
>>> Cheers
>>> GL

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