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From "Marcus (OOo)" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Product Branding
Date Sat, 05 Nov 2011 23:41:23 GMT
Am 11/05/2011 11:22 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Marcus (OOo)<>  wrote:
>> (Without to bring in any judgement)
>> Google hits:
>>           4,770,000
>> OpenOffice              41,900,000
>> Open Office             16,100,000
>> Apache      171,000
>> Apache OpenOffice           58,600
>> Apache Open Office         183,000
>> Apache Office               29,100
> I don't trust the Google numbers very much.  The Google search engine
> is too smart.  They take your query and match it against variations of
> those terms.  So a query for "Open Office" might also match "Open the
> office", etc.  So it is tricky to interpret the numbers.

In the search results only "Open Office" was found as I've used the 
quotes as search term. So, the numbers reflect very well the found 
results. However, I don't know how much we should trust them.

> I've taken a different approach, by looking at Wikipedia page hits.
> Since Wikipedia has hard-coded redirect rules for variations of the
> name, that all redirect to the page, you can look at
> the page hits for the redirect pages to see how frequently users typed
> in those variations.  Clever, eh?
> I had a python script crunch through the page hit data for the English
> Wikipedia for October, around 250 GB of data.  With the caution that
> this might be different for other languages, here is what I see:
> 53943
> 417
> 62
> Open Office 1430
> Open office 2640
> open office 12
> OpenOffice 683
> Openoffice 2546
> openoffice 29
> Ignore the very large count for "".  That is because
> that page is the direct target for many other Wikipedia pages as well
> as external links that point to it.  So that number is a mixture of
> user queries and users navigating to that page via hyperlinks.  I
> don't see how to determine how many users actually typed the query
> "" in Wikipedia.
> But look at the variation that is with initial captial letter followed
> by lowercase.  These are probably all user-typed queries:
> 417
> Open office 2640
> Openoffice 2546
> Of course, we should not choose a brand merely on how Wikipedia users
> capitalize the name  They might just be lazy when entering a query.

Of course we should look for our users and their wishes. But I think 
this should have limits and I don't want a product name like "Open 
office" or "Open office.Org". I think we should think for ourselves what 
makes sense and looks/writes fine.


>> Am 11/01/2011 06:57 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:50 PM,<>    wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>> what about "Apache Open Office" ?
>>>> In my experience most people write "Open Office" or "open office",
>>>> with a blank between open and office, if they are searching for somewhat
>>>> with OOo in Google or Bing or so ...
>>> I've certainly seen that.  But I don't know if it is majority or not.
>>> The "camel case convention" of OpenOffice is something you see in many
>>> tech names.  It is one of several weird conventions.   If we were a
>>> heavy metal band we could call it "ÖpenÖffice" per
>>>  It is the same idea.  Camel
>>> case signifies high tech.  Or at least it did 10 years ago....
>>> -Rob
>>>> Just my 2cent.
>>>> Lothar
>>>> Von:    Rob Weir<>
>>>> An:
>>>> Datum:  01.11.2011 16:50
>>>> Betreff:        [DISCUSS] Product Branding
>>>> In this thread I'd like to have the 2-week discussion on product
>>>> branding.  If there is consensus then we can go forward with that
>>>> (assuming Apache Branding VP doesn't object). If there is no consensus
>>>> after 2 weeks then we will have a vote.
>>>> Main constraint is the name must be "Apache X" for some value of X.
>>>> Apache, Apache OpenOffice and Apache Office have been
>>>> suggested., without the Apache preface, would not be
>>>> allowed per Apache branding rules.
>>>> If there is another name you think we should consider, please raise it
>>>> soon.
>>>> My personal preference is for Apache OpenOffice.  I think that this
>>>> makes clear the continuation from the previous branding.  This could
>>>> be reinforced by adopting a the legacy graphical logo with minimal
>>>> changes.  It also avoids confusion with other "OpenOffce" trademarks
>>>> that might exist in the UK or the Netherlands.  If adding ".org" to
>>>> the name make us unique before, then adding "Apache" in front also
>>>> serves to make us unique.
>>>> Of course, in casual conversation, users will still refer to
>>>> "OpenOffice" as they did before.  This makes the
>>>> web site still very relevant for the users.  This is true even without
>>>> ".org" in the product name.
>>>> My one concern with this name is its effect on the existing
>>>> trademark registration.  If we call ourselves "Apache
>>>> OpenOffice" and never as "" what happens to the existing
>>>> trademark?  Is it considered abandoned?  Can anyone then use it?  Can
>>>> we prevent someone from causing confusion by adopting that name for a
>>>> similar product?
>>>> To put it in perspective, when Oracle announced that it was
>>>> contributing OOo to Apache, within a week a company attempted to
>>>> register the trademark "OpenOffice" in the US.  The value of our brand
>>>> is significant enough to attract scams.
>>>> Considering the past abuse that has been attempted against this brand,
>>>> and the likely future repetitions of the same, I think that it is
>>>> critical that we have some way to protect ourselves and our users
>>>> against confusing misuse of the names OpenOffice,, Open
>>>> Office, etc., in the usual variations.
>>>> For example,  would Apache actually register "Apache OpenOffice" as a
>>>> US trademark?
>>>> So in summary, I like the shorter name "Apache OpenOffice" better than
>>>> "Apache".  But I just want to make sure we don't lose
>>>> the effective benefits and priority of the existing
>>>> trademark registration.
>>>> -Rob

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