From ooo-dev-return-28681-apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Fri Nov 2 09:01:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 46C99D151 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 09:01:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 7210 invoked by uid 500); 2 Nov 2012 09:01:40 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 7154 invoked by uid 500); 2 Nov 2012 09:01:40 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 7138 invoked by uid 99); 2 Nov 2012 09:01:40 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 09:01:40 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of awf.aoo@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.214.47] (HELO mail-bk0-f47.google.com) (209.85.214.47) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 09:01:30 +0000 Received: by mail-bk0-f47.google.com with SMTP id jk7so1178237bkc.6 for ; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 02:01:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+fI1nrvJdMGDlIc1EUdpNzdw4/44OfqF7TeTz7DA58w=; b=lx8uSjsCNj+tIzTvh1EgKFWwfwpxSpomq0YCfpEj1PFyolzWA8hr1PtUam7o/j5e8J B9yW5/LNTgGtFUtkxMNFKqWwjkGRQfTm2CokHkPhVQqLgkk0rBspyWxnbvNgFPA3C9jK OYGLmfu3GONZub7MsLsl3e6BbDZHcQHwl3JtD9Dx8Qz9K0w+95lnVfORt0iN9bt0hTbQ Pq9U0rVZIF+zL9OmQ3jY80KicXN19qxhrB/UDbYQUIJpXoTMOtuFe9PeEdppBBUilzDb tViiTYLiZb/RVkVAbM3wN2azEeV9UBacNGmiGPkZRvY4/l3W4X7LwuEEYegvaRoUAxbk zshA== Received: by 10.204.148.146 with SMTP id p18mr202973bkv.51.1351846870200; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 02:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [9.155.131.83] (deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com. [195.212.29.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j24sm6003586bkv.0.2012.11.02.02.01.08 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 02 Nov 2012 02:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50938BD2.80707@googlemail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:01:06 +0100 From: Andre Fischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: OpenOffice Developer Room (devroom) at FOSDEM References: <50602B7A.8070907@apache.org> <50604B2A.4070408@gmail.com> <585007FE-D493-47DB-9C04-FDF5C870FB12@gmail.com> <8FEEAA25-87C7-4CB1-965F-6556E07DC4BF@apache.org> <5060B553.3000003@apache.org> <2A3AF29EC0814FC6B654C369AF804CD6@gmail.com> <50619899.6070903@apache.org> <507481C4.4010400@apache.org> <5075B862.5040308@apache.org> <3D78B5DC-5F71-4387-86B7-362DE148B24C@gmail.com> <5077157E.3020901@apache.org> <507AEB53.1080509@apache.org> <507BBA4E.6030403@gmail.com> <507C8B5E.2090502@apache.org> <508463D9.7070309@apache.org> <508508AD.8050503@gmail.com> <35EEBF37-60AA-4087-9B9E-9F9E6A21460A@gmail.com> <5089BB1C.9080603@apache.org> <50904023.6050502@apache.org> <50929B69.80802@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On 01.11.2012 17:27, jan iversen wrote: > A brilliant idea, especially if I may copy some of your slides... Sure. > > I am still fumbling how the build works, and to be honest (NOT to criticize > anyone) I am not impressed. That is a very friendly way to put it. I am still trying not to sound too negative in my talk and find that not being easy. But I am currently preparing a slide about all the things that the build system has to handle: Languages: 20, soon maybe 30 Platforms: Windows, Linux 32/64, MacOSX, FreeBSD OS/2, Solaris Package formats: archive, msi, deb, rpm, dmg Products: OpenOffice, language packs, SDK (all regular and as developer build), URE several external libraries with their own build systems several programming languages to compile and link and it is doing all this for more than 15 years So, it could be better but it could also be worse. But criticizing is not something bad, it is the first step in making the system better. > > Just one thing: > > I do a "build --all", which comes back OK, then I do a second "build --all" > and to my surprise it generates a couple of libraries again..I assumed I > had missed an error, so I tried it a third time, same thing happened, > libraries was built. > > In my opion (and according with normal makefile schemes) once it completes > without errors, it should not build anything a second time. You are right but and in most cases the reason for the repeated building will be badly written makefiles. But there are some reasons why it is how it is: - The dmake part of the build system does not have inter-module dependencies on file granularity. You either build a whole module or you don't. - File based inter-module dependencies take a lot of time to process. That was not possible 10 years back. Build sw today and you will experience a delay of a few seconds. That is the time it takes to ready the dependencies of only those modules that have already been converted to gbuild. Again, you are right in your expectations. We are going in that direction, but slowly. > > But putting that aside, I would be happy to focus on localization together > with jürgen, but if it is something you want to do it yourself thats ok > with me. I will have my share of giving talks at ApacheCon (three talks). It would be great if you could cover FOSDEM. -Andre > > Jan. > > > On 1 November 2012 16:55, Andre Fischer wrote: > >> On 30.10.2012 22:10, jan iversen wrote: >> >>> Just for info, Juergen told me that he was going to talk about l10n on >>> apacheCon, so I suggested that we could make a speech at FOSDEM, because >>> at >>> that time the new workflow is hopefully ready or so close that we know all >>> details. >>> >>> A good theme for a main speech would be how the handle the build (and >>> release) process with internationalization in a big project like AOO. >>> >> Hi Jan, >> >> I will be talking at ApacheCon EU about the AOO build system and only >> briefly mention l10n (how it works today). >> Maybe you want to give a similar talk at FOSDEM but with a strong focus on >> l10n? >> >> -Andre >> >>