Hi, On 01.10.2012 16:25, Regina Henschel wrote: > Hi Oliver, > > I shorten the mail a little bit > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann schrieb: >> Hi Regina, >> >> On 01.10.2012 14:18, Regina Henschel wrote: > [..] >>> >>> Oh no, then I was not clear. I try again. It is not possible to set >>> a paragraph reference into the list style, the list style dialog >>> should not be changed but needs to be as it is currently in >>> AOO3.4. Reasoning: 1. Define two paragraph styles "English" and >>> "German". In both of them set the numbering to the same numbering >>> style "My list". You cannot solve this by referencing a paragraph >>> style inside of "My list". 2. You can produce a dead lock. In >>> paragraph style "A" set numbering to list "One". In list "One" set >>> paragraph of level 2 to paragraph style "B". In paragraph style "B" >>> set numbering to list "Two". In list "Two" set paragraph of lever 2 >>> to paragraph style "A". >>> >>> I know, there is the wish to automatically use a specific paragraph >>> style for a specific list level. But that is not possible with a >>> reference inside the list style, see above. Instead such binding is >>> done in the "Condition" part of the paragraph style. The >>> "Condition" part of the paragraph style avoids the dead lock this >>> way: If inside of paragraph style "A" you set the paragraph style >>> "B" for the numbering level 2, then the paragraph style "B" is not >>> assigned to the paragraph, but only its formatting attributes are >>> used to actually style the paragraph. The assigned paragraph style >>> remains "A". >>> >> >> Ok, now I understand your concern. From my point of view we need >> both: - In the Paragraph Style format dialog we need a list level >> field which more or less directly sets ODF attribute style:list-level >> of the corresponding paragraph. > > Yes, that is my suggestion. > fine. Thus, I think we should implement such a UI. > - In the List Style format dialog we >> need the possibility to assign multiple paragraph styles to a certain >> list level of the list style. Thus, we more or less need a >> multiple-selection field/control/sub dialog - a UI by which the user >> can assign more than one paragraph style to a certain list level of >> the list style. > > I'm not sure what you mean. I see no way to assign a paragraph style to a list > level style. Is there a suitable attribute in the file format for a list-level > style? > > By such an action the paragraph style's ODF >> attributes style:list-style-name and style:list-level will be set. > > You mean, you do not assign a paragraph style to a list level style but the > other way round? > Yes. >> This would mean that the user will get the possibility in the List >> Style format dialog to directly change attributes of one or more >> paragraph styles. But it would be very convenient for a user to have >> this possibility. > > It would need a very careful design to avoid the impression, that the paragraph > style is bind to the list-level the same way the binding is done between > paragraph style and heading level in the outline numbering dialog. The already existing "binding of a paragraph style to the Outline List Style and a list level" is more or less the same from my point of view. In the Outline Numbering dialog a paragraph style is not only "bound to the Outline List Style and a list level", but also "bound to a certain outline level". > > Additional difficulties: > - The list of paragraph styles is very, very long. Yes. It would be a challenge to find a good UI. > - Multiselection has to be possible and the user has to be informed, that it is > possible Yes. > - How to add a paragraph, if you want to do so after you have already close the > dialog and reopen it then. > - How is the user notified, that he overwrites an entry, that is made on a > different level. As already said a good UI solution is needed. > - How does this effect a list item, that belongs to a list of that style, but > has already assigned a different paragraph style? It has no effect. The list style could be applied to an existing list item (in general a list item consists of one paragraph) directly or via another paragraph style. Changing/Setting the list style and the list level of a paragraph style has no effect on list items which have not applied this paragraph style. Changing/Setting the list style of a paragraph style has effect on list items which have applied this paragraph style. Changing/Setting the new list level of a paragraph style has no effect on list items which have applied this paragraph style as stated in the ODF 1.2 specification - see also my comments on issue 120620 [1], [2] [1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=120620#c7 [2] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=120620#c8 > - How are the already existing entries made visible as already set? Again, a good UI would be needed. Unfortunately, I do not have it at hand. > > I still not convinced, that the list style dialog is the right place. > Me, too. Especially after some internal discussions with Andre and Jürgen. Andre and Jürgen asked for "real" use cases, esp. for use cases where more than one paragraph style has style:list-style-name="ListStyleA" and style:list-level="5". I do not have any. I also thought about how a good UI would look like and how much effort it would be to find it and to implement it. Thus, I am proposing the following: - Introduce new UI field in Paragraph Style format dialog, pane Outline&Numbering, area Numbering to _show_ and _set_ new ODF 1.2 attribute style:list-level. A list box with entries "Level 1"..."Level 10" would make sense from my point of view. - Introduce new UI field in List Style format dialog, pane Options, new area Paragraph Style to _show_ all paragraph styles which have the list style and the in UI field Level selected list level set in its attributes. May be a scrollable multi-line text field makes sense. > > [..] >> It seems I misunderstood you here. I thought that you were proposing >> to introduce a list level field in the Paragraph format dialog in >> order to set the list level of a paragraph which is currently only >> possible via demote/promote actions. > > I think indeed, that it is coupled. Or can you think of a concrete paragraph > being for example at list level 2 because of nested text:list elements, but has > a list-level attribute of 3 in his style? I know, that in CSS it is possible to > style an element like a list item although it is not a list item. The value of new ODF 1.2 style:list-level attribute of a paragraph style will not be inherited by the corresponding paragraphs. Thus, changing the paragraph style's style:list-level value will have no effect on the corresponding paragraphs. Thus, I can not imagine any concrete example, but it is theorectically possible. ODF paragraph style's style:list-level attribute is comparable to ODF paragraph style's style:default-outline-level. When a paragraph style is applied the value of style:defaul-outline-level resp. style:list-level has been taken over by the corresponding paragraph to fill its text:outline-level attribute resp. to create the corresponding list item depths. > But I fear, > that would give a large mess for AOO. Numbering is already difficult enough with > 'outline numbering', 'anonymous list style', 'named list style', and 'condition > formatting'. > I absolute agree with you that the complete List/Numbering/Outline stuff is too complicated in AOO. Best regards, Oliver.