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From Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <orwittm...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [Call For UI Review] About the attribute list level of paragraph style
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:12:47 GMT
Hi,

On 01.10.2012 16:25, Regina Henschel wrote:
> Hi Oliver,
>
> I shorten the mail a little bit
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann schrieb:
>> Hi Regina,
>>
>> On 01.10.2012 14:18, Regina Henschel wrote:
> [..]
>>>
>>> Oh no, then I was not clear. I try again. It is not possible to set
>>> a paragraph reference into the list style, the list style dialog
>>> should not be changed but needs to be as it is currently in
>>> AOO3.4. Reasoning: 1. Define two paragraph styles "English" and
>>> "German". In both of them set the numbering to the same numbering
>>> style "My list". You cannot solve this by referencing a paragraph
>>> style inside of "My list". 2. You can produce a dead lock. In
>>> paragraph style "A" set numbering to list "One". In list "One" set
>>> paragraph of level 2 to paragraph style "B". In paragraph style "B"
>>> set numbering to list "Two". In list "Two" set paragraph of lever 2
>>> to paragraph style "A".
>>>
>>> I know, there is the wish to automatically use a specific paragraph
>>>  style for a specific list level. But that is not possible with a
>>> reference inside the list style, see above. Instead such binding is
>>> done in the "Condition" part of the paragraph style. The
>>> "Condition" part of the paragraph style avoids the dead lock this
>>> way: If inside of paragraph style "A" you set the paragraph style
>>> "B" for the numbering level 2, then the paragraph style "B" is not
>>> assigned to the paragraph, but only its formatting attributes are
>>> used to actually style the paragraph. The assigned paragraph style
>>> remains "A".
>>>
>>
>> Ok, now I understand your concern. From my point of view we need
>> both: - In the Paragraph Style format dialog we need a list level
>> field which more or less directly sets ODF attribute style:list-level
>> of the corresponding paragraph.
>
> Yes, that is my suggestion.
>

fine.
Thus, I think we should implement such a UI.

>   - In the List Style format dialog we
>> need the possibility to assign multiple paragraph styles to a certain
>> list level of the list style.  Thus, we more or less need a
>> multiple-selection field/control/sub dialog - a UI by which the user
>> can assign more than one paragraph style to a certain list level of
>> the list style.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. I see no way to assign a paragraph style to a list
> level style. Is there a suitable attribute in the file format for a list-level
> style?
>
>   By such an action the paragraph style's ODF
>> attributes style:list-style-name and style:list-level will be set.
>
> You mean, you do not assign a paragraph style to a list level style but the
> other way round?
>

Yes.

>> This would mean that the user will get the possibility in the List
>> Style format dialog to directly change attributes of one or more
>> paragraph styles. But it would be very convenient for a user to have
>>  this possibility.
>
> It would need a very careful design to avoid the impression, that the paragraph
> style is bind to the list-level the same way the binding is done between
> paragraph style and heading level in the outline numbering dialog.

The already existing "binding of a paragraph style to the Outline List Style and 
a list level" is more or less the same from my point of view. In the Outline 
Numbering dialog a paragraph style is not only "bound to the Outline List Style 
and a list level", but also "bound to a certain outline level".

>
> Additional difficulties:
> - The list of paragraph styles is very, very long.

Yes. It would be a challenge to find a good UI.

> - Multiselection has to be possible and the user has to be informed, that it is
> possible

Yes.

> - How to add a paragraph, if you want to do so after you have already close the
> dialog and reopen it then.
> - How is the user notified, that he overwrites an entry, that is made on a
> different level.

As already said a good UI solution is needed.

> - How does this effect a list item, that belongs to a list of that style, but
> has already assigned a different paragraph style?

It has no effect.
The list style could be applied to an existing list item (in general a list item 
consists of one paragraph) directly or via another paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the list style and the list level of a paragraph style has no 
effect on list items which have not applied this paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the list style of a paragraph style has effect on list items 
which have applied this paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the new list level of a paragraph style has no effect on list 
items which have applied this paragraph style as stated in the ODF 1.2 
specification - see also my comments on issue 120620 [1], [2]

[1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=120620#c7
[2] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=120620#c8

> - How are the already existing entries made visible as already set?

Again, a good UI would be needed. Unfortunately, I do not have it at hand.

>
> I still not convinced, that the list style dialog is the right place.
>

Me, too.
Especially after some internal discussions with Andre and Jürgen. Andre and 
Jürgen asked for "real" use cases, esp. for use cases where more than one 
paragraph style has style:list-style-name="ListStyleA" and style:list-level="5". 
I do not have any. I also thought about how a good UI would look like and how 
much effort it would be to find it and to implement it.

Thus, I am proposing the following:
- Introduce new UI field in Paragraph Style format dialog, pane 
Outline&Numbering, area Numbering to _show_ and _set_ new ODF 1.2 attribute 
style:list-level. A list box with entries "Level 1"..."Level 10" would make 
sense from my point of view.
- Introduce new UI field in List Style format dialog, pane Options, new area 
Paragraph Style to _show_ all paragraph styles which have the list style and the 
in UI field Level selected list level set in its attributes. May be a scrollable 
multi-line text field makes sense.


>
> [..]
>> It seems I misunderstood you here. I thought that you were proposing
>> to introduce a list level field in the Paragraph format dialog in
>> order to set the list level of a paragraph which is currently only
>> possible via demote/promote actions.
>
> I think indeed, that it is coupled. Or can you think of a concrete paragraph
> being for example at list level 2 because of nested text:list elements, but has
> a list-level attribute of 3 in his style? I know, that in CSS it is possible to
> style an element like a list item although it is not a list item.

The value of new ODF 1.2 style:list-level attribute of a paragraph style will 
not be inherited by the corresponding paragraphs. Thus, changing the paragraph 
style's style:list-level value will have no effect on the corresponding 
paragraphs. Thus, I can not imagine any concrete example, but it is 
theorectically possible.
ODF paragraph style's style:list-level attribute is comparable to ODF paragraph 
style's style:default-outline-level. When a paragraph style is applied the value 
of style:defaul-outline-level resp. style:list-level has been taken over by the 
corresponding paragraph to fill its text:outline-level attribute resp. to create 
the corresponding list item depths.

> But I fear,
> that would give a large mess for AOO. Numbering is already difficult enough with
> 'outline numbering', 'anonymous list style', 'named list style', and 'condition
> formatting'.
>

I absolute agree with you that the complete List/Numbering/Outline stuff is too 
complicated in AOO.


Best regards, Oliver.

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