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From Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <>
Subject Re: [Call For UI Review] About the attribute list level of paragraph style
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:12:47 GMT

On 01.10.2012 16:25, Regina Henschel wrote:
> Hi Oliver,
> I shorten the mail a little bit
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann schrieb:
>> Hi Regina,
>> On 01.10.2012 14:18, Regina Henschel wrote:
> [..]
>>> Oh no, then I was not clear. I try again. It is not possible to set
>>> a paragraph reference into the list style, the list style dialog
>>> should not be changed but needs to be as it is currently in
>>> AOO3.4. Reasoning: 1. Define two paragraph styles "English" and
>>> "German". In both of them set the numbering to the same numbering
>>> style "My list". You cannot solve this by referencing a paragraph
>>> style inside of "My list". 2. You can produce a dead lock. In
>>> paragraph style "A" set numbering to list "One". In list "One" set
>>> paragraph of level 2 to paragraph style "B". In paragraph style "B"
>>> set numbering to list "Two". In list "Two" set paragraph of lever 2
>>> to paragraph style "A".
>>> I know, there is the wish to automatically use a specific paragraph
>>>  style for a specific list level. But that is not possible with a
>>> reference inside the list style, see above. Instead such binding is
>>> done in the "Condition" part of the paragraph style. The
>>> "Condition" part of the paragraph style avoids the dead lock this
>>> way: If inside of paragraph style "A" you set the paragraph style
>>> "B" for the numbering level 2, then the paragraph style "B" is not
>>> assigned to the paragraph, but only its formatting attributes are
>>> used to actually style the paragraph. The assigned paragraph style
>>> remains "A".
>> Ok, now I understand your concern. From my point of view we need
>> both: - In the Paragraph Style format dialog we need a list level
>> field which more or less directly sets ODF attribute style:list-level
>> of the corresponding paragraph.
> Yes, that is my suggestion.

Thus, I think we should implement such a UI.

>   - In the List Style format dialog we
>> need the possibility to assign multiple paragraph styles to a certain
>> list level of the list style.  Thus, we more or less need a
>> multiple-selection field/control/sub dialog - a UI by which the user
>> can assign more than one paragraph style to a certain list level of
>> the list style.
> I'm not sure what you mean. I see no way to assign a paragraph style to a list
> level style. Is there a suitable attribute in the file format for a list-level
> style?
>   By such an action the paragraph style's ODF
>> attributes style:list-style-name and style:list-level will be set.
> You mean, you do not assign a paragraph style to a list level style but the
> other way round?


>> This would mean that the user will get the possibility in the List
>> Style format dialog to directly change attributes of one or more
>> paragraph styles. But it would be very convenient for a user to have
>>  this possibility.
> It would need a very careful design to avoid the impression, that the paragraph
> style is bind to the list-level the same way the binding is done between
> paragraph style and heading level in the outline numbering dialog.

The already existing "binding of a paragraph style to the Outline List Style and 
a list level" is more or less the same from my point of view. In the Outline 
Numbering dialog a paragraph style is not only "bound to the Outline List Style 
and a list level", but also "bound to a certain outline level".

> Additional difficulties:
> - The list of paragraph styles is very, very long.

Yes. It would be a challenge to find a good UI.

> - Multiselection has to be possible and the user has to be informed, that it is
> possible


> - How to add a paragraph, if you want to do so after you have already close the
> dialog and reopen it then.
> - How is the user notified, that he overwrites an entry, that is made on a
> different level.

As already said a good UI solution is needed.

> - How does this effect a list item, that belongs to a list of that style, but
> has already assigned a different paragraph style?

It has no effect.
The list style could be applied to an existing list item (in general a list item 
consists of one paragraph) directly or via another paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the list style and the list level of a paragraph style has no 
effect on list items which have not applied this paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the list style of a paragraph style has effect on list items 
which have applied this paragraph style.
Changing/Setting the new list level of a paragraph style has no effect on list 
items which have applied this paragraph style as stated in the ODF 1.2 
specification - see also my comments on issue 120620 [1], [2]


> - How are the already existing entries made visible as already set?

Again, a good UI would be needed. Unfortunately, I do not have it at hand.

> I still not convinced, that the list style dialog is the right place.

Me, too.
Especially after some internal discussions with Andre and Jürgen. Andre and 
Jürgen asked for "real" use cases, esp. for use cases where more than one 
paragraph style has style:list-style-name="ListStyleA" and style:list-level="5". 
I do not have any. I also thought about how a good UI would look like and how 
much effort it would be to find it and to implement it.

Thus, I am proposing the following:
- Introduce new UI field in Paragraph Style format dialog, pane 
Outline&Numbering, area Numbering to _show_ and _set_ new ODF 1.2 attribute 
style:list-level. A list box with entries "Level 1"..."Level 10" would make 
sense from my point of view.
- Introduce new UI field in List Style format dialog, pane Options, new area 
Paragraph Style to _show_ all paragraph styles which have the list style and the 
in UI field Level selected list level set in its attributes. May be a scrollable 
multi-line text field makes sense.

> [..]
>> It seems I misunderstood you here. I thought that you were proposing
>> to introduce a list level field in the Paragraph format dialog in
>> order to set the list level of a paragraph which is currently only
>> possible via demote/promote actions.
> I think indeed, that it is coupled. Or can you think of a concrete paragraph
> being for example at list level 2 because of nested text:list elements, but has
> a list-level attribute of 3 in his style? I know, that in CSS it is possible to
> style an element like a list item although it is not a list item.

The value of new ODF 1.2 style:list-level attribute of a paragraph style will 
not be inherited by the corresponding paragraphs. Thus, changing the paragraph 
style's style:list-level value will have no effect on the corresponding 
paragraphs. Thus, I can not imagine any concrete example, but it is 
theorectically possible.
ODF paragraph style's style:list-level attribute is comparable to ODF paragraph 
style's style:default-outline-level. When a paragraph style is applied the value 
of style:defaul-outline-level resp. style:list-level has been taken over by the 
corresponding paragraph to fill its text:outline-level attribute resp. to create 
the corresponding list item depths.

> But I fear,
> that would give a large mess for AOO. Numbering is already difficult enough with
> 'outline numbering', 'anonymous list style', 'named list style', and 'condition
> formatting'.

I absolute agree with you that the complete List/Numbering/Outline stuff is too 
complicated in AOO.

Best regards, Oliver.

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