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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
Date Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:44:01 GMT
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > see inline below...
>> >
>> >
>> > On 09/26/2012 02:25 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Donald Whytock <dwhytock@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Still suggesting some sort of expiration mechanism (perhaps a
>> >>>> timestamp in the entry, with a scheduled job to prune), so this
>> >>>> doesn't become a barnacle colony.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> One policy might be that once a year (or quarter or whatever) we
>> >>> verify that the listed homepage and email address are still valid.
>> >>> Ones that fail are removed.  Of course they could be re-added if the
>> >>> resubmitted.  This is an easy-enough task if we have a listing of 20
>> >>> consultants.  Less so with 200.  Maybe could be automated.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Dennis will like this.  Just thought of a "poka-yoke" approach to
>> >> identifying obsolete listings.  Simply require that the logo be hosted
>> >> by the listed company.  That way, if the company moves on, there is a
>> >> good chance that the image link will break as well and this will be
>> >> obvious when looking at the listings.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, this is a very good idea!
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> Auto-expiration could work as well, but we'd probably want to automate
>> >>> a reminder courtesy note.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is not something we need to decide right now, except maybe to say
>> >>> in the submission policy document that listings may be deleted if they
>> >>> cease to be relevant, e.g., contact information becomes invalid, etc.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Don
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Another one of those "larger ecosystem" things I'll be pushing
on.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If you recall the legacy OpenOffice.org project had a webpage
that
>> >>>>> listed various consultants who provided services for OpenOffice.
 We
>> >>>>> took it down because it was very out of date and we didn't have
time
>> >>>>> (at that time) to figure out the policy implications and update
the
>> >>>>> content.  Well guess what?  I have time now.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ====> A draft of a proposed approach is on the wiki here:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Draft+--+Apache+OpenOffice+Consultants+Directory
>> >>>>> <====
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'm working on the XSLT script now.  Looking good so far.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If you read the wiki you'll see the policy implications are
minimal:
>> >>>>> We'll be fair and accept all relevant submitted listings, provided
>> >>>>> they don't abuse ASF trademarks,   I don't think we need more
than
>> >>>>> that, but adding more is certainly easy enough.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Note also the disclaimer on the wiki, which I'll repeat here.
 As a
>> >>>>> non-profit we need to be careful about how we intersect with
>> >>>>> commercial activities.  I think this is sufficient, but changes
are
>> >>>>> easy to make.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Disclaimer:   Although most individual users are able to download
>> and
>> >>>>> use Apache OpenOffice without any help, or with the assistance
of
>> >>>>> volunteers on our Forums and mailing lists, some users, especially
>> >>>>> corporate users, may have more complex requirements that require
>> >>>>> commercial services in order to optimize their deployments.
 The
>> >>>>> following individuals and firms offer services that may be of
>> >>>>> interest.   The information provided here was provided by the
>> entities
>> >>>>> named here, and is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice
>> >>>>> project.  We offer these listings as a service to the ecosystem."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If there are no objections to this general approach, I'll proceed
as
>> >>>>> follows:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1) Write up a definition of the requirements for the input XML
file.
>> >>>>> XML Schema and plain English definition, for use by consultants
>> >>>>> submitting us listings
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2) Draft a webpage giving info on how consultants can submit
a
>> >>>>> listing.  Would list technical and policy requirements.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 3) Complete XSLT scripts and get them checked in.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 4) Get this all onto the website into a test directory for review.
>> >>>>> Perhaps we seed it with initial data from project members who
provide
>> >>>>> services, so we have something at launch time other than fake
data.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 5) Once approved, we go live.  The legacy project buried this
under
>> >>>>> the "support" page, but I think we should offer a more prominent
>> >>>>> location, perhaps a link on the home page.
>> >
>> >
>> > Why do you think this is desirable? Yeah, I remember we had this under a
>> > "Commercial Support" heading or something like that on the "Support"
>> page.
>> >
>>
>> In general I think our current support page is confusing and
>> unhelpful.   Too much text on one page and outdated,  broken links.
>> I bet 99% of the visitors to this page are looking for a short list of
>> items, like support forum or documentation.  I count 53 links on that
>> page, and that ignores the navigation links.  Adding a 54th link for
>> consultants would condemn that page to perpetual obscurity,
>>
>
> OK. We should definitely "clean this up" if this is the case. Early on, I
> had tested out some of the links, and most were still working. This may no
> longer be the case.
>
>
>>
>> > Maybe augmenting the current "Help" link (3rd down) with some additional
>> > wording as to what kinds of support folks might find *on* the Support
>> page,
>> > and then just putting it back there? Right now it's pretty vague.
>> >
>>
>> Or radical simplification of that page to our best support options and
>> put the other links off on an "other.html" page.   But that is another
>> issue, slightly out of scope of what I'm volunteering to do at the
>> momen
>>
>
> That seems reasonable, esp for something like the "Books" listing.
>
> My main concern was to not highlight  commercial support entities via a
> direct link from the home page over other types of support.
>

That's fine.  It can be an interior link.  I just want to make sure it
is findable by a visitor without too much guesswork.  No one is going
to be seduced into hiring a consultant based on a link they come
across while casually browsing our website.  If they need this kind of
help they will be looking specifically for it.  They'll either try
some path to find it from the home page.  We should try to make it
relatively logical and easy to find from there.  Or they'll search
Google for "openoffice consultants" or "openoffice services" or
similar.  So we'll want to pay attention to keywords on that page, so
it places prominently in search results.

-Rob

> It seems we might need further discussion on this aspect.
>
>
>> -Rob
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 6) Promote via blog, social networking, etc.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 7) PMC reviews incoming submissions, etc.  Routine maintenance.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Note: this same approach (Submission instructions page + XML/XSLT
to
>> >>>>> generate user-facing XHTML page) would also work very nicely
for a CD
>> >>>>> Distributor listing page.  It should be possible to copy this
>> >>>>> approach, including the XSLT script, even including this note,
and
>> >>>>> with some modifications reuse it for that purpose.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Rob
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > MzK
>> >
>> > "Just 'cause you got the monkey off your back
>> >  doesn't mean the circus has left town."
>> >                     -- George Carlin
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "Just 'cause you got the monkey off your back
>  doesn't mean the circus has left town."
>                     -- George Carlin

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