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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
Date Thu, 27 Sep 2012 00:11:52 GMT
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Lawrence Rosen <> wrote:
>> The policy implications may be broader than you've summarized below.
>> I read the draft disclaimer and I like it. But I'm not convinced that a
>> disclaimer is sufficient when Apache identifies people or companies who can
>> help with AOO unless there is also a statement of our right, in our sole
>> discretion, to remove any listing that does not conform to AOO community
>> standards (whatever those are?).
> On the wiki I suggest that abuse of ASF trademarks, in the listing or
> on the linked website, would be something that would cause a listing
> to be rejected.   Perhaps there are others.  We could leave it broader
> -- "at the discretion of the PMC", but then it is harder to ensure
> fairness (or in a dispute show that we are being fair) without defined
> written criteria.
>> Is there a standard by which you can remove someone from the list?
> I think it would be easy to define a policy that makes it clear that
> we may reject irrelevant (spammy) listings, obsolete listings,
> technically erroneous listings (malformed logo files) and listings
> that are abusing trademarks or implying an official relationship with
> the project. Going further than that?  We could probably say that the
> listings would need to comply with overall site guidelines, which
> gives us broad ability to reject porn, copyright infringement, hate
> speech, etc.
>> Is this an opportunity for a job listing board rather than for Apache itself
>> to manage?
> Practice varies.  Some Apache projects list consultants on their
> website or wiki:

A few more examples to show the range of approaches:

I'm a little surprised that I don't see disclaimers in use similar to
the one I proposed.

> And some have a mailing list for those seeking consulting services.
> But I think the listing approach works best for our audience.  It is
> certainly what worked for us previously.
> Regards,
> -Rob
>> /Larry
>> Lawrence Rosen
>> Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (
>> 3001 King Ranch Rd., Ukiah, CA 95482
>> Office: 707-485-1242
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Donald Whytock []
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:04 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
>> Still suggesting some sort of expiration mechanism (perhaps a timestamp in
>> the entry, with a scheduled job to prune), so this doesn't become a barnacle
>> colony.
>> Don
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>>> Another one of those "larger ecosystem" things I'll be pushing on.
>>> If you recall the legacy project had a webpage that
>>> listed various consultants who provided services for OpenOffice.  We
>>> took it down because it was very out of date and we didn't have time
>>> (at that time) to figure out the policy implications and update the
>>> content.  Well guess what?  I have time now.
>>> ====> A draft of a proposed approach is on the wiki here:
>>> penOffice+Consultants+Directory
>>> <====
>>> I'm working on the XSLT script now.  Looking good so far.
>>> If you read the wiki you'll see the policy implications are minimal:
>>> We'll be fair and accept all relevant submitted listings, provided
>>> they don't abuse ASF trademarks,   I don't think we need more than
>>> that, but adding more is certainly easy enough.
>>> Note also the disclaimer on the wiki, which I'll repeat here.  As a
>>> non-profit we need to be careful about how we intersect with
>>> commercial activities.  I think this is sufficient, but changes are
>>> easy to make.
>>> "Disclaimer:   Although most individual users are able to download and
>>> use Apache OpenOffice without any help, or with the assistance of
>>> volunteers on our Forums and mailing lists, some users, especially
>>> corporate users, may have more complex requirements that require
>>> commercial services in order to optimize their deployments.  The
>>> following individuals and firms offer services that may be of
>>> interest.   The information provided here was provided by the entities
>>> named here, and is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice
>>> project.  We offer these listings as a service to the ecosystem."
>>> If there are no objections to this general approach, I'll proceed as
>> follows:
>>> 1) Write up a definition of the requirements for the input XML file.
>>> XML Schema and plain English definition, for use by consultants
>>> submitting us listings
>>> 2) Draft a webpage giving info on how consultants can submit a
>>> listing.  Would list technical and policy requirements.
>>> 3) Complete XSLT scripts and get them checked in.
>>> 4) Get this all onto the website into a test directory for review.
>>> Perhaps we seed it with initial data from project members who provide
>>> services, so we have something at launch time other than fake data.
>>> 5) Once approved, we go live.  The legacy project buried this under
>>> the "support" page, but I think we should offer a more prominent
>>> location, perhaps a link on the home page.
>>> 6) Promote via blog, social networking, etc.
>>> 7) PMC reviews incoming submissions, etc.  Routine maintenance.
>>> Note: this same approach (Submission instructions page + XML/XSLT to
>>> generate user-facing XHTML page) would also work very nicely for a CD
>>> Distributor listing page.  It should be possible to copy this
>>> approach, including the XSLT script, even including this note, and
>>> with some modifications reuse it for that purpose.
>>> Regards,
>>> -Rob

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