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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
Date Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:28:08 GMT
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Lawrence Rosen <> wrote:
> The policy implications may be broader than you've summarized below.
> I read the draft disclaimer and I like it. But I'm not convinced that a
> disclaimer is sufficient when Apache identifies people or companies who can
> help with AOO unless there is also a statement of our right, in our sole
> discretion, to remove any listing that does not conform to AOO community
> standards (whatever those are?).

On the wiki I suggest that abuse of ASF trademarks, in the listing or
on the linked website, would be something that would cause a listing
to be rejected.   Perhaps there are others.  We could leave it broader
-- "at the discretion of the PMC", but then it is harder to ensure
fairness (or in a dispute show that we are being fair) without defined
written criteria.

> Is there a standard by which you can remove someone from the list?

I think it would be easy to define a policy that makes it clear that
we may reject irrelevant (spammy) listings, obsolete listings,
technically erroneous listings (malformed logo files) and listings
that are abusing trademarks or implying an official relationship with
the project. Going further than that?  We could probably say that the
listings would need to comply with overall site guidelines, which
gives us broad ability to reject porn, copyright infringement, hate
speech, etc.

> Is this an opportunity for a job listing board rather than for Apache itself
> to manage?

Practice varies.  Some Apache projects list consultants on their
website or wiki:

And some have a mailing list for those seeking consulting services.

But I think the listing approach works best for our audience.  It is
certainly what worked for us previously.



> /Larry
> Lawrence Rosen
> Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (
> 3001 King Ranch Rd., Ukiah, CA 95482
> Office: 707-485-1242
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Whytock []
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:04 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
> Still suggesting some sort of expiration mechanism (perhaps a timestamp in
> the entry, with a scheduled job to prune), so this doesn't become a barnacle
> colony.
> Don
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>> Another one of those "larger ecosystem" things I'll be pushing on.
>> If you recall the legacy project had a webpage that
>> listed various consultants who provided services for OpenOffice.  We
>> took it down because it was very out of date and we didn't have time
>> (at that time) to figure out the policy implications and update the
>> content.  Well guess what?  I have time now.
>> ====> A draft of a proposed approach is on the wiki here:
>> penOffice+Consultants+Directory
>> <====
>> I'm working on the XSLT script now.  Looking good so far.
>> If you read the wiki you'll see the policy implications are minimal:
>> We'll be fair and accept all relevant submitted listings, provided
>> they don't abuse ASF trademarks,   I don't think we need more than
>> that, but adding more is certainly easy enough.
>> Note also the disclaimer on the wiki, which I'll repeat here.  As a
>> non-profit we need to be careful about how we intersect with
>> commercial activities.  I think this is sufficient, but changes are
>> easy to make.
>> "Disclaimer:   Although most individual users are able to download and
>> use Apache OpenOffice without any help, or with the assistance of
>> volunteers on our Forums and mailing lists, some users, especially
>> corporate users, may have more complex requirements that require
>> commercial services in order to optimize their deployments.  The
>> following individuals and firms offer services that may be of
>> interest.   The information provided here was provided by the entities
>> named here, and is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice
>> project.  We offer these listings as a service to the ecosystem."
>> If there are no objections to this general approach, I'll proceed as
> follows:
>> 1) Write up a definition of the requirements for the input XML file.
>> XML Schema and plain English definition, for use by consultants
>> submitting us listings
>> 2) Draft a webpage giving info on how consultants can submit a
>> listing.  Would list technical and policy requirements.
>> 3) Complete XSLT scripts and get them checked in.
>> 4) Get this all onto the website into a test directory for review.
>> Perhaps we seed it with initial data from project members who provide
>> services, so we have something at launch time other than fake data.
>> 5) Once approved, we go live.  The legacy project buried this under
>> the "support" page, but I think we should offer a more prominent
>> location, perhaps a link on the home page.
>> 6) Promote via blog, social networking, etc.
>> 7) PMC reviews incoming submissions, etc.  Routine maintenance.
>> Note: this same approach (Submission instructions page + XML/XSLT to
>> generate user-facing XHTML page) would also work very nicely for a CD
>> Distributor listing page.  It should be possible to copy this
>> approach, including the XSLT script, even including this note, and
>> with some modifications reuse it for that purpose.
>> Regards,
>> -Rob

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