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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Call for comments: Webpage for Listing OpenOffice Consultants
Date Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:29:41 GMT
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
> > see inline below...
> >
> >
> > On 09/26/2012 02:25 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Donald Whytock <dwhytock@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Still suggesting some sort of expiration mechanism (perhaps a
> >>>> timestamp in the entry, with a scheduled job to prune), so this
> >>>> doesn't become a barnacle colony.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> One policy might be that once a year (or quarter or whatever) we
> >>> verify that the listed homepage and email address are still valid.
> >>> Ones that fail are removed.  Of course they could be re-added if the
> >>> resubmitted.  This is an easy-enough task if we have a listing of 20
> >>> consultants.  Less so with 200.  Maybe could be automated.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Dennis will like this.  Just thought of a "poka-yoke" approach to
> >> identifying obsolete listings.  Simply require that the logo be hosted
> >> by the listed company.  That way, if the company moves on, there is a
> >> good chance that the image link will break as well and this will be
> >> obvious when looking at the listings.
> >
> >
> > Yes, this is a very good idea!
> >
> >>
> >>> Auto-expiration could work as well, but we'd probably want to automate
> >>> a reminder courtesy note.
> >>>
> >>> This is not something we need to decide right now, except maybe to say
> >>> in the submission policy document that listings may be deleted if they
> >>> cease to be relevant, e.g., contact information becomes invalid, etc.
> >>>
> >>>> Don
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another one of those "larger ecosystem" things I'll be pushing on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you recall the legacy OpenOffice.org project had a webpage that
> >>>>> listed various consultants who provided services for OpenOffice.
 We
> >>>>> took it down because it was very out of date and we didn't have
time
> >>>>> (at that time) to figure out the policy implications and update
the
> >>>>> content.  Well guess what?  I have time now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ====> A draft of a proposed approach is on the wiki here:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Draft+--+Apache+OpenOffice+Consultants+Directory
> >>>>> <====
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm working on the XSLT script now.  Looking good so far.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you read the wiki you'll see the policy implications are minimal:
> >>>>> We'll be fair and accept all relevant submitted listings, provided
> >>>>> they don't abuse ASF trademarks,   I don't think we need more than
> >>>>> that, but adding more is certainly easy enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note also the disclaimer on the wiki, which I'll repeat here.  As
a
> >>>>> non-profit we need to be careful about how we intersect with
> >>>>> commercial activities.  I think this is sufficient, but changes
are
> >>>>> easy to make.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Disclaimer:   Although most individual users are able to download
> and
> >>>>> use Apache OpenOffice without any help, or with the assistance of
> >>>>> volunteers on our Forums and mailing lists, some users, especially
> >>>>> corporate users, may have more complex requirements that require
> >>>>> commercial services in order to optimize their deployments.  The
> >>>>> following individuals and firms offer services that may be of
> >>>>> interest.   The information provided here was provided by the
> entities
> >>>>> named here, and is not verified or endorsed by the Apache OpenOffice
> >>>>> project.  We offer these listings as a service to the ecosystem."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there are no objections to this general approach, I'll proceed
as
> >>>>> follows:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Write up a definition of the requirements for the input XML file.
> >>>>> XML Schema and plain English definition, for use by consultants
> >>>>> submitting us listings
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2) Draft a webpage giving info on how consultants can submit a
> >>>>> listing.  Would list technical and policy requirements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3) Complete XSLT scripts and get them checked in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4) Get this all onto the website into a test directory for review.
> >>>>> Perhaps we seed it with initial data from project members who provide
> >>>>> services, so we have something at launch time other than fake data.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5) Once approved, we go live.  The legacy project buried this under
> >>>>> the "support" page, but I think we should offer a more prominent
> >>>>> location, perhaps a link on the home page.
> >
> >
> > Why do you think this is desirable? Yeah, I remember we had this under a
> > "Commercial Support" heading or something like that on the "Support"
> page.
> >
>
> In general I think our current support page is confusing and
> unhelpful.   Too much text on one page and outdated,  broken links.
> I bet 99% of the visitors to this page are looking for a short list of
> items, like support forum or documentation.  I count 53 links on that
> page, and that ignores the navigation links.  Adding a 54th link for
> consultants would condemn that page to perpetual obscurity,
>

OK. We should definitely "clean this up" if this is the case. Early on, I
had tested out some of the links, and most were still working. This may no
longer be the case.


>
> > Maybe augmenting the current "Help" link (3rd down) with some additional
> > wording as to what kinds of support folks might find *on* the Support
> page,
> > and then just putting it back there? Right now it's pretty vague.
> >
>
> Or radical simplification of that page to our best support options and
> put the other links off on an "other.html" page.   But that is another
> issue, slightly out of scope of what I'm volunteering to do at the
> momen
>

That seems reasonable, esp for something like the "Books" listing.

My main concern was to not highlight  commercial support entities via a
direct link from the home page over other types of support.

It seems we might need further discussion on this aspect.


> -Rob
>
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 6) Promote via blog, social networking, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 7) PMC reviews incoming submissions, etc.  Routine maintenance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note: this same approach (Submission instructions page + XML/XSLT
to
> >>>>> generate user-facing XHTML page) would also work very nicely for
a CD
> >>>>> Distributor listing page.  It should be possible to copy this
> >>>>> approach, including the XSLT script, even including this note, and
> >>>>> with some modifications reuse it for that purpose.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Rob
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > "Just 'cause you got the monkey off your back
> >  doesn't mean the circus has left town."
> >                     -- George Carlin
>



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"Just 'cause you got the monkey off your back
 doesn't mean the circus has left town."
                    -- George Carlin

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