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Subject: Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
From: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:52:21 -0700
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To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org

I know that as a Mentor (only for Flex) my responsibility is to guide =
the community to sustainability. Most of the time I am quiet, respond =
when needed and let the project make its own decisions.

Note that Christian, an original Mentor, recently asked about =
graduation.

I won't speculate on why the other mentors have been quiet on this =
thread. Every reason is different.

Regards,
Dave

On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:18 AM, J=FCrgen Schmidt wrote:

> On 7/18/12 3:49 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>=20
>>> From: Andrea Pescetti <pescetti@apache.org>
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Cc: hagar.delest@laposte.net
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
>>>=20
>>> Hagar Delest wrote:
>>>> You've taken the fun out of it. ...
>>>> As a consequence, I resign from my PPMC role and will unsubscribe =
the
>>>> dev & private mailing lists right now.
>>>=20
>>> It's a very sad (hopefully temporary) consequence.
>>>=20
>>> It proves that the OpenOffice project is not mature yet: it can =
still happen=20
>>> that one person's (well-meant) behavior can force a valuable =
contributor out=20
>>> of this project without this contributor having done anything =
against the=20
>>> project.
>>>=20
>>> This community must become stronger and more welcoming: we've =
improved a lot=20
>>> in handling localization volunteers recently, and further =
improvements will come=20
>>> naturally. But we can't afford to lose community volunteers this =
way.
>>=20
>> Well yes the loss is disappointing, let's hope he reconsiders.  But =
as I have
>> said before, this project has a rather serious "human resource =
shortfall" when
>> it comes to the www.openoffice.org website.  There are literally =
thousands upon
>> thousands of pages there, some of it in languages foreign to the =
existing set
>> of committers, and of Dave's 20 or so volunteers who have contributed =
so far,
>> significantly less than 100 pages have been touched by human hands =
over
>> the past year- other than through Dave's sledgehammers to sitewide =
header and
>> footer templates.  As a mentor that remains an ongoing unsolved =
problem for this
>> group to pay some attention to.  Let's not lose sight of the big =
picture here.
>>=20
>> So instead of entirely focusing on the potential loss of a key =
individual, I will
>> continue to advocate the position that we encourage people to get =
actively involved
>> in the care and upkeep of the site, starting with fellow committers =
on the project
>> and expanding to potential interested parties on this list.
>>=20
>=20
> yes it is always good to encourage people to get actively involved,
> attract new developers, new translators, new forum admins, etc.
> Everybody should do what's possible and in the scope of their =
interest.
> Our project is so huge that their is place for everybody and we the
> project members accept this and welcome everybody.
>=20
> If Hagar really step back and won't continue his great job it will be =
a
> big lost. We appreciate your work and what you did for the
> infrastructure, the CMS and everything else you do here or for other
> projects. But in this special case you completely failed and it is =
even
> more worse because you are a mentor. I am sure that nobody in this
> project (excepting other mentors who are surprisingly quite) support
> what you have done or better how you have tried to address this. But I
> hope that you have learned your lesson as well from this.
>=20
> I am personally not happy with the whole story but believe that we =
will
> come stronger out of it and hopefully with Hagar!!!
>=20
> Related to your concerns regarding the web pages, they need indeed a
> cleanup and a lot of redesign and I think we have already thought =
about
> it. But it is not the only working area that needs our focus and we
> lived with the content for a while now. You can't grab volunteers from
> trees like ripe apples ;-)
>=20
> Juergen
>=20
>=20