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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: Java download link on AOO site
Date Fri, 13 Jul 2012 05:48:21 GMT
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:

>> Joe, your tone is extremely rude and insulting. You want people to
>> learn/change something? Nobody wants to hear it that way. You wrote it
>> is Anti-Apache to not use the CMS. I consider it Anti-Apache the way
>> you write here.
> Please stop putting words in my mouth.  That's not what I said in the slightest;
> if you have a beef with my language how bout reading it for content instead
> of reacting to your guesses about my tone?

You wrote earlier:

>Because it is anti-Apache to continue to break down the community into
>walled-gardens- little fiefdoms of ownership and agency are very much
>against what we mentors are trying to teach you.

>Hagar is a committer, that comes both with certain rights and certain
>responsibilities, the latter of which is to not bother others with work
>he can carry out effectively himself.

Hagar does not want to use the CMS, but he could (probably, if he
starts to learn about it and if he has the time to do so). But for now
he doesn't want to do it. Is that now Anti-Apache? Crap.

Really man, there is no such a "responsibility" you are speaking of.
Here are volunteers!

About your tone, read your emails. If you don't believe me, maybe you
should listen to the others who claimed about your tone.

>> Maybe the CMS is targeting Hagar. Instead of bashing Hagar for not
>> using it, probably you should think about why he is not using it and
>> improve the CMS. It is not so easy as a wiki. If you really think that
>> than you are clearly wrong (and I say that even when I start to like
>> it). If you need/want help with that, lets incubate the CMS.
> Get off your hobby horse for a second and look at Hagar's behavior
> in this thread.

Yes, looked at his "bahavior" and now what? There is nothing bad about
it, at least I cannot see it.

>> Not every committer can deal with a CMS and this is actually no entry
>> barrier to become a committer. You can become a committer for other
>> reasons the technology, CMS use and such, like responding on the Forum
>> or writing valuable blog posts. Saying otherwise is just wrong. Hagar
>> has the same limited time for this project as many other people around
>> and he wants to spend it with other tasks. I really cannot find a
>> problem here and people haven shown that they can share their workload
>> and do it as a team - this IS the apache way. We are not alone on a
>> project and yes, you can ask other people to help you.
> The biggest problem with this project is the prevalence of people who
> are unskilled in the codebase occupying all the oxygen on the dev list.
> This list, unlike the forums, is about project development, and teaching
> others to behave in productive ways by *demonstrating* the behavior
> you want to see from others here.

I certainly don't want to see what happened here. This biggest problem
here are not unskilled people it is the heat some people put into this
project. If you want this project to succeed it needs to become a
warm, welcoming place. Most here are volunteers, but really, I would
not like to work in this environment even when I would be paid!

> I've said my peace on this subject, and I'm going to withdraw from actively
> monitoring the conversations here because I realize my role isn't to educate
> this project any more- we're well beyond those early stages.  If people
> aren't concerned with Hagar's collaborative behavior towards the site
> than far be it from me to continue to make issue with it- it's not my
> project.




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