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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Terms of Service on Forums
Date Wed, 04 Jul 2012 13:50:13 GMT
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<> wrote:
> @Rob,
> Yes, I am seeing what you are seeing.
> Concerning the ToU for the forums, it is the same as what was previously on the web site.
 While there is a license grant for non-code and other places where no other license is applied,
the license is also to "all Users".
> @Rob, @Drew, @Kay
> I created an issue that proposed a new terms of use that was consistent with the Oracle
ones for ASF and would have not made this problem worse, as far as I can tell.  That was long
ago and it went nowhere.  The JIRA issue is here: <>.
 Here's the connected issue on our Bugzilla: <>.
 I came to our Bugzilla because LEGAL-104 can't have attachments.  The attachment on the Bugzilla
provides a red-lined transformation of the Oracle ToU into one that could work for the forums,
wikis, and web pages now under ASF custodianship.

OK.  I read that over.  IMHO it is still too much.   It is dressed up
in chain mail armour, as befits a big corporation with the risk
profile of a big corporation.  Large corporations are a magnet for
petty lawsuits.   But the circumstances are different with the ASF.
Our main concern is (or should be) clarity and helpfulness to the
reader, not to protect our multi-billion dollar corporation.  I''d
also entirely separate the outgoing license question.  This is not a
ToU question.  That can be covered separate by a "license" link on the
various websites, which might be simple in some case (incubator site
is 100% ALv2) and less so on some legacy sites.

So a minimal approach might look something like this, which could be
applied across all of our websites:


Consolidated Terms of Use for Apache OpenOffice Websites

The Apache Software Foundation hosts several websites on behalf of the
Apache OpenOffice project:

-- under

- under

- under

- under

-- under

By your use of these websites you acknowledge that you have read these
Terms and agree to them.

1. Privacy

Information about your use of the websites is collected using server
access logs and a tracking cookie. The collected information consists
of the following:

    The IP address from which you access the website;
    The type of browser and operating system you use to access our site;
    The date and time you access our site;
    The pages you visit; and
    The addresses of pages from where you followed a link to our site.

Part of this information is gathered using a tracking cookie set by
the Google Analytics service and handled by Google as described in
their privacy policy . See your browser documentation for instructions
on how to disable the cookie if you prefer not to share this data with

We use the gathered information to help us make our site more useful
to visitors and to better understand how and when our site is used.

Additionally, some of websites  have a user registration systems that
queries you for information such as name, password and email address.
 This information is collected, stored and used in order to provide
you a unique login and to associate that login with your activity on
the website.  We endeavour keep this information private, but it may
be revealed to a competent authority under a lawful order.

By using this website, you consent to the collection of this data in
the manner and for the purpose described above.

2. User submitted content

By submitting content to the website, you agree that this content may
be hosted on the website, for the benefit of other website users.
Additionally, you agree that your submissions may be edited, modified,
translated, copied, within the website.  You warrant that you have
sufficient rights to any content that you submit to the website
necessary to grant the above license.

If you wish to offer a broader license, to allow 3rd parties to reuse
your content outside of this website, then you may do so, provided the
license is compatible with the above requirements.  Apache License 2.0
is especially recommended.   Please mark the license prominently in
your contribution.

3. Exclusions

The websites at and
are not operated by the Apache Software Foundation and are not covered
by this Terms.

4. Changes to these Terms

We may change these Terms from time to time.  When we make substantive
changes we will also make an announcement on the ooo-announce mailing


> It addresses some of the cases that Rob also mentions.  I stand by my analysis.  You
might want to see how to carve out what you want from that, since it is at least a start and
the places where further customization may be called for are all identified.
>  - Dennis
> Some months ago it was discussed with the ASF Board whether a privacy condition and safe-harbor
setup was desired.  That apparently didn't get anywhere.

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