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From Kay Schenk <>
Subject Re: Terms of Service on Forums
Date Sat, 14 Jul 2012 22:10:10 GMT

On 07/07/2012 09:42 AM, drew wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-07-07 at 12:27 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:31 AM, drew <> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2012-07-05 at 14:01 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> <snip>
>>>>> <orcmid>
>>>>>    This might need to be separated for what the agreement is when people
>>>>>    register/subscribe and provide information solicited to accomplish
>>>>>    that.
>>>>>      This seems like too broad an umbrella for what happens when folks
>>>>>    register versus what happens when accessing sites versus what happens
>>>>>    when sending an e-mail somewhere.
>>>>> </orcmid>
>>>> It would be good to link to the ToU from any registration.  But note
>>>> that we don't always have that access where it is a shared Apache
>>>> service, for example CWiki.
>>>> Nothing in the ToU speaks about emails, so that is red herring.
>>> A red herring? I don't think so - why should it only be valid if already
>>> there. The site references our mailing lists and certainly did, likely
>>> still does, IMO a comment on the public nature of mailing lists is
>>> really appropriate here.
>> The point is this:  a user can contribute to the mailing list without
>> ever having visited the website.  So posting ToU for the mailing list
>> on a website is not going to really have any legal or even advisory
>> effect.    One thing that we could do is put ToU in the confirmation
>> note we send to new list subscribers.   Or even a link to a
>> consolidated ToU on the website if that is how we do it.
>> In any case, most of the ToU is in the nature of a notice:  we are
>> telling the user what will are doing, what we can do, and what we will
>> do under certainly conditions.  The main exception, where we are
>> demanding something of the user, is if where we require a licence on
>> their contributions.  So that is the one thing where we cannot be
>> casual.  If we want to have an incoming licence on contributions that
>> really needs to be baked into registration systems, list
>> acknowledgement emails, etc.
> Well, I agree that this is a notice - I still feel it would appropriate
> to mention mailing list.
> What I've done just now is simply to move your text verbatim to the wiki
> - I'll add a paragraph for what I think is an apt way to address this.
> Give a read to that, and if you or anyone else thinks it's just our of
> place, well, that's why it's a white board, right ;-)
> //drew
>> -Rob

I just did a very quick draft mock-up of a new TOU at:*DRAFT*+Terms+of+Use

based on Dennis's original corrections at:

IT still seems rather lengthy to me but...

and it needs some additional information (ref URLs) and in what state is 
ASF "incorporated" or registered?

I agree with Drew that perhaps we should mention the mailing lists in 
some way...

I will work on this more tomorrow sometime and perhaps we can actually 
fix this.


"There's no crying in baseball!"
        -- Jimmy Dugan (Tom Hanks), "A League of Their Own"

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