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From Rory O'Farrell <>
Subject Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
Date Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:19:33 GMT
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:54:29 -0600
Larry Gusaas <> wrote:

> On 2012-07-17 2:38 PM Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Hagar Delest <>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:10 PM
> >> Subject: Re: On parks, commons, and websites... and fun (or lack of)
> >>
> >> Let's be clear: I don't have the desire to take the effort to do such thing.
> >> I volunteer to this project on my free time because I like it. But the deal
> >> is that I've to like it. I give my time to help users because I find some
> >> fun in it.
> >> So I won't engage in things that bore me. If you can't understand this simple
> >> fact, there is no point discussing further.
> > Yes you've made that abundantly clear that you find website work boring and
> > beneath you.  As I've tried to make clear to you, people here who do that
> > sort of work on your behalf or provide you with the tools to make that work
> > less boring for you will often find your attitude insulting and degrading and
> > yes unfun.  Others won't mind in the least.  Such is life.
> >
> >
> >> If I had not the committer status, would you have asked me to do it myself too?
> > Of course I would. Had you been paying attention you would have realized that.
> >
> >> I think not. And again, I'm a committer only because I accepted to report for
> >> the forums on the blog (meaning a new account to handle, a new tool and a new
> > Committer status has nothing to do with blog credentials.
> >
> >
> >> Which is something that I don't greatly enjoy.
> >>
> >> I accepted the ASF invitation to get more involved in AOO because I thought
> >> would be some interesting development for the future of AOO and it could be
fun to
> >> contribute to it. But if it means being bashed like that (thinking it would
be a good
> > thing to report a problem), then no way. You've taken the fun out of it.
> >
> >
> > I haven't attacked you not a single time; I'm not bashing you either.  I have
> > challenged you to increase your level of contribution to this project to match
> > the expectations of the other participants and committers on this mailing list.
> > Having said no there's no penalty to pay- nobody's going to strip your karma
> > for not trying.  The worst thing that will likely happen to you are the usual
> > social consequences of not meeting the expectations of many of your peers, which
> > may not bother you either.  Different strokes for different folks- there is no
> > need for further drama here.
> Your attacks on Hagar have been insulting and demeaning. Your use of language is insulting,

> despite your claims otherwise. You need to learn how to encourage people.
> Hagar was a very valuable member of this project. Your mean spirited attacks have caused
him to 
> resign.
> Congratulations on the wonderful job you are doing as a mentor. Not.
> -- 

I agree with Larry Gusaas.  It is important to remember that many of the participants to this
and other projects have real lives with concommitant duties and responsibilities, which we
may not wish to divulge publicly.  We give freely of our time, as permitted by those requirements;
for some (many) things we have not the spare time or leisure to devote, as in this case learning
how to edit a Wiki or a web page and/or making corrections to it. 

You say "I have challenged you to increase your level of contribution to this project to match
the expectations of the other participants and committers on this mailing list"; this is utter
arrogance.  You and other contributors to this list have no knowledge of Hagar's responsibilities,
or of mine or of most other participants and are not entitled to demand that he do more, simply
because you think he ought. 

You are perhaps not aware of the full level of Hagar's contribution to one aspect of OpenOffice,
the running of the Forum. The Forum takes some hundred a day postings off your lists, in terms
of actual queries posted, and some several hundred (perhaps more) per day which are answered
by users accessing its knowledge base, which if that were not there could materialise as extra
queries posted to your lists.  If the Forum collapses, your lists will become unworkable!
 All you, and all other contributors, are entitled to expect is that we deal honestly and
fairly with you, reading nothing beyond that into our words and requiring nothing beyond that;
part of that honesty is to say "I have not this or that ability, or the time/inclination to
learn it."  

If someone points to a flaw, in whatever, and indicates that he has not the time or knowledge
or inclination to fix it, then that flaw and fix become fair game for anyone else to fix,
and that is as it should be.

Rory O'Farrell <>

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