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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: Java download link on AOO site
Date Sun, 15 Jul 2012 20:00:02 GMT
<orcnote comment="below" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Schaefer [] 
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:00
Subject: Re: Java download link on AOO site

The thing is Dennis, it is self-defeating for the org to fund my work
on the CMS to make it a more effective collaboration tool for Apache
communities if projects don't start expecting committers and end users
alike to take advantage of it.  If this is the new norm, where application
of project documentation is no longer expected for Apachedev-list participation,
then I'll adjust my plans accordingly.  I do know that Infra would never
survive with only 3-4 staffers if we didn't expect committers to
read/apply/critique/fixour documentation.

Whether it is difficultto use the CMSor super easy makes no difference
to anyoneif only a select few areexpectedto even try.

[ ... ]


I find this very strange in an open-source context.  The expectation that there is an eager
or required group of users seems odd.  How was that arrived at?

I also find it strange to project a duty onto volunteers.  Most volunteers get to choose what
their duties are. 

 - Dennis

Notes from my personal, narrow perspective on how I deal with finding low-friction, high-payoff
places to put my attention and energy:

 I am not adverse to "build-it-and-they-might-come" development (because if I don't they definitely
won't), but not with any expectation that there are any people anxiously waiting to dog-food
my efforts.  That means I seek satisfaction in the effort itself, without much expectation
beyond that beyond a hope of being of some use to others.  I also don't expect anyone to pay
me for such self-indulgence on my part.

With regard to the ASF CMS, the only thing I know about it is the on-list encouragement of
folks to use a bookmark that makes editing the web site easier.  I know nothing more than
that.  I don't even know what browser the bookmark may be limited to (nor am I in a hurry
to find out).  

There are many more things that I know how to do that are where I will put my attention more

I've not learned MarkDown, for example, because I never needed to before, although I can fake
wikiText well enough, and learn little bits more as needed in dealing with a particular wiki
format.  Meanwhile, I have many ways to edit (web) pages in an SVN Working Copy.  But the
ASF site-publishing process and the way pages are merged on the site is still something I
haven't picked-up on.  I will eventually learn MarkDown more systematically because I want
to pay closer attention to Ward Cunningham's Smallest-Federated-Wiki, not because it is used
underneath anything at the ASF.  I may end up supporting SFW it on a site of my own.  For
that, MarkDown gets more of my attention.

I only managed to write Apache OO(i) blog posts by finding out how to use Windows LiveWriter
to compose them off-line and publish them automatically.  Although I got the required use
of drafts wrong, I have succeeded in making posts the way I know best and that serve some
personal requirements that I have around blog authoring.

I also refused to give up maintaining an AOO(i) roster and committer-intake tracker in OpenOffice
Calc when folks complained that there are no diffs for commits to that binary-format document.
 Instead, I make sure that the commit messages describe what was changed or added for those
who want to follow along via reading commit messages. 

In all cases, it is about finding ways to get the work done that I have taken on, not on diversions
into toolcraft.  It's different when everything's new.  That's not where I find myself these


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