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From Kevin Grignon <>
Subject Re: Tolerance and acceptance
Date Thu, 07 Jun 2012 02:22:44 GMT
KG01 -  see comments inline

On Wednesday, June 6, 2012, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Ross Gardler <<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > I move that there is no need to continue to fuel the fires of AOO vs
> > LO. The PPMC is now effective at ignoring anti-AOO materials on our
> > own lists. I suggest the PPMC should further silence inflammatory
> > posts that are anti-LO on our lists.
> >
> And what about negative posts about AOO?  Shoul we "silence" those?  I
> hope not.  Negative posts from users (within some bounds of decorum)
> is valuable feedback to the project.  I think we should value frank
> discourse about the product and where it falls short.

KG01 - Agreed. No wrong answers. Both positive and negative feedback help
us understand if we are meeting our user's expectations.

> I don't think we expect users to be familiar with The Apache Way or
> even mailing lists in general.  We see all sorts of disorderly conduct
> on ooo-users, from SCREAMING ALL CAPS, to flames, etc.  Project
> members, on the other hand, should lead by example, and focus on
> constructive comments.

KG01 - Agreed. Take the high road, acknowledge input, and lead by example.

> So although I agree with your sentiment here, I think we need to be
> very careful when considering "silencing inflammatory posts" in
> general, since a ham fisted approach would also silence criticism of
> AOO, which is valuable to receive.
> -Rob
> > For example, a recent post on ooo-users said:
> >
> > "The LO guys should have thought about that before forking OpenOffice
> > following Novell's siren's call. (remember the first major fork of
> > OpenOffice was Novell's Go-OO which incorporated the MS OOXML
> > support).
> >
> > In fact, it was their actions that killed the commercial prospects of
> > StarOffice, which Oracle had renamed "Oracle Open Office" (without the
> > .org)."
> >
> > I suggest that the ooo-users list is not the place for these kinds of
> > opinions, regardless of their validity. This is especially true when
> > they are made in response to a positive comment, which was "The main
> > goal has always been to create the best Office suite possible - so
> > let's unite around that."
> >
> > Our communities need to be welcoming. There is no chance of creating
> > unity if disunity is the response. I'm not suggesting this be tackled
> > onlist, that can be counter-productive too. I'm merely highlighting it
> > and encouraging individuals on the PPMC who agree with me to consider
> > sending a polite but firm request to stay focused on helping users on
> > the ooo-users list.
> >
> > Ross

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