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From Wolf Halton <wolf.hal...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Guidelines for list conduct policy
Date Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:28:30 GMT
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Wolf Halton <wolf.halton@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:42 PM, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 16:21 -0700, Kay Schenk wrote:
>> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:33 PM, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 00:14 +0200, RGB ES wrote:
>> > > > 2012/6/20 drew jensen <drewjensen.inbox@gmail.com>:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> List Conduct Policy
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>    1.
>> > > > >>    What Happens on the list, stays on the list:
>> > > > >>    Anything you read in the private list is by default a
private
>> PPMC
>> > > > >>    affair and not to be spoken of, or copied to, other people
>> who are
>> > > not in
>> > > > >>    the PPMC.  If you think about it, most topic threads probably
>> > > should
>> > > > >> be in
>> > > > >>    the public lists, except choosing committers and PPMC
>> members, and
>> > > a very
>> > > > >>    few other topics.
>> > > > >>    In fact, all email lists or email conversations have this
>> aspect of
>> > > > >>    privacy. Even if there are 23000 subscribers on the list,
it
>> is
>> > > assumed
>> > > > >>    that privacy will be maintained and a list member's name
and
>> > > location
>> > > > >> will
>> > > > >>    not be disclosed in some public venue where personal privacy
>> is not
>> > > > >> expected,
>> > > > >>    such as published in a newspaper or some other.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > hi,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I would disagree with that last statement completely - a public
>> list is
>> > > > > just that, public, and there should be absolutely no expectation
>> of
>> > > > > privacy whatsoever. To pretend otherwise is simply to lie to
>> those who
>> > > > > would use the list.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > //drew
>> > > >
>> > > > Point one refers to the private lists, I think.
>> > > >
>> > > > Maybe add a "point zero" with an introduction to the mailing lists,
>> as
>> > > > Ross asked? Not a detailed introduction, just to say most lists are
>> > > > public but one is private. Then the "code of conduct" can be
>> separated
>> > > > on a "general part" that apply to all lists and a second part with
>> > > > additional rules (for instance, the privacy one) for the private
>> list.
>> > > >
>> > > > Ricardo
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > OK if that is really just about private lists, but the last sentence
>> > > read to me as if it was broader.
>> > >
>> > > Anyway - to be honest I find the whole subject rather silly. Does
>> anyone
>> > > really need to be told that what happens on a private list is by
>> > > definition to be held in confidence?
>> > >
>> > > //drew
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Well, Drew, I think this is why this whole discussion started. Most of
>> us
>> > would think the answer to your question is "no", but, well, apparently
>> > there was some looser interpretation that some felt needed
>>  clarification.
>>
>> Not at all - someone violated that trust, everyone knew it was wrong,
>> there didn't need to be rules written for folks to know that.
>>
>> But that is just my opinion of course.
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, Wolf, this is really good. I think this would be better posted
>> as
>> > just a link on the project site,
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/,
>> > under the Mailing Lists link, and give more clarification on item #1
>> that
>> > this most importantly applies to private mailing lists. Drew's right
>> that
>> > we don't want to mislead people to think anything else is private.
>> >
>> > I think maybe it's a bit lengthy to add to a "welcome" message to list
>> > subscribers.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> The #1 entry is the most "reactionary" meaning it is in reaction to an
> event or events which we as a group never want to see again, and such is
> probably a dangerous step toward totalitarianism.  I, and others  have
> defanged it somewhat.  I know it needs to be clarified to limit its scope
> to only the private lists or specifically the PPMC list and Security list.
> Maybe that paragraph should be #7 and something else should be at the top,
> as there are only a small percentage who are members of the PPMC/Security
> and a lot more who are part of dev@ or Users@ or marketing@ etc..
>
> -Wolf
>
>
> --
> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
> Open-Source Software in Libraries - http://FOSS4Lib.org
> Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
> Apache Open Office Developer wolfhalton@apache.org
>
>
Here is the adjusted version:
I put Dave's #7 as #0 and a reminder of the AOO mission and implications
thereof as #1. The private-lists entry is now at the bottom.

-Wolf
+++++++++++++++++++++++

List Conduct Policy

   1.

   Respect one another:
   Discussion is the cornerstone of a project like this and the sharing of
   viewpoints is crucial, as is understanding and accepting that many views
   will differ from your own. By all means debate rigorously and defend your
   view point stoutly, but avoid abrasive dialogue and personal attacks. Give
   leeway to people who do not have English as a first language. Pause before
   taking insult, and pause before responding. There is a difference between
   robust discussion and steamrollering. Civility is paramount. Manners cost
   nothing; we are all capable of self-moderation, and of being aware of our
   conduct.
   2.

   Remember the Apache OpenOffice Mission:
   “To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that
   will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and
   data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format.”
   The AOO project is a place for finding open-source solutions to document
   creation and consumption. We believe in making AOO freely available because
   we are the sort of people who welcome diversity on others, creativity of
   all sorts and who enjoy finding the best in all situations.
   3.

   Be Nice:
   Not only are there lots of people on this list whose first language is
   not English, there are busy readers, who by necessity have to read things
   quickly. If other list members are telling you they do not understand what
   you wrote, or take your innocent phrasing in a poor light, take it as a
   signal that your writing style is too idiomatic or too technical (unlikely
   but possible) for others to follow easily.  This does not necessarily mean
   you are mean, wrong and bad, so just be nice and reword the passage.
   Assume people are not in "attack mode." We are all on the same team here.
   4.

   Don't Respond When You are Angry:
   Assuming people are not in attack mode means, if you think they are,
   just now, then probably you are just misunderstanding their point. Ad
   hominem attacks, e.g., "You are too dumb to get this," are a sign that you
   yourself may not have a good-enough handle on the issue to explain your
   point clearly.
   5.

   Relax:
   Always remember, that unless there is a *darn* good reason, nothing gets
   decided at the ASF in less than 72 elapsed hours, so your reply can wait
   until morning.  You might even get lucky, and when you check back somebody
   else will have posted either what you wanted to say, or something close
   enough that you can work with it.
   Remember that the members of a community mailing list will get to the
   list when they can. Most of us do this in our spare time, and in different
   time zones. Perhaps the rule of thumb could be to respond no more than once
   per hour, or once per day, to any given thread. The highest frequency of
   responses does not necessarily “Win” in a community of equals. The most
   concise and useful post tends to win, because furthering the dialog and
   advancing the community's goals is what we desire.
   6.

   Get to the point:
   Write as tersely as possible, and edit down as much possible, so other
    people who are just as busy as you may quickly get your point without
   ending up defensive, but balance is needed. Do not let brevity get in the
   way of providing enough information. Remember that people must understand
   your post in order to understand your point.
   7.

   Consider trimming the post to which you are responding:
   People who read emails on small screens are not the only ones who are
   frustrated by picking important new information out of tons of stuff they
   have already read.  To trim a post, one simply remove any parts of the post
   to which one is replying that are not important to understand ones reply.
   If the response to one of these posts is, “What? I do not understand,” then
   it may be that too much of the context may have been removed.
   8.

   What happens on a private list, stays on that list:
   There are only a few private lists on the project. The PPMC list and the
   Security Team list come to mind. Anything you read in a private list is by
   default a private affair and not to be spoken of, or copied to, other
   people who are not members of that private list.
   9.

   There are going to be exceptions to the rule:
   All of these guidelines are subject to sanity-testing.
   A person posting child porn on any Apache.org or Apache OpenOffice list
   will be reported to the appropriate authorities and will not be able to
   complain that their list privacy has been violated.
   Ramping up to a release, there are a lot of postings at high frequency.
   Sometimes it takes a long post to say what needs to be said.





More Useful Stuff:

Apache Tips for Email Contributors –
<http://www.apache.org/dev/contrib-email-tips.html>
http://www.apache.org/dev/contrib-email-tips.html

Apache OpenOffice Mailing Lists –
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html<http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html>


 =============================


-- 
This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
Open-Source Software in Libraries - http://FOSS4Lib.org
Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
Apache Open Office Developer wolfhalton@apache.org

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