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From drew <d...@baseanswers.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] logo usage -- nitpicking and some proposed changes
Date Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:53:54 GMT
On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 13:54 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:33 PM, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 10:01 -0700, Kay Schenk wrote:
> >>


<snip>

> > >>
> >> >> I did not think it correct, back to my goal, I'm thinking is to license
> >> >> each piece and the whole under Creative Commons 3, No-Derivative. I
> >> >> don't care about attribution and I thought about non-commercial also..
> >> >>
> >> >> http://lo-portal.us//aoo/temp/AOO34-cd-folded-win.png
> >> >>
> >> >> (bottom of back cover :)
> >> >>
> >> >> so I would be using this CC3-by-nd for each piece and for the iso image
> >> >> as a whole.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think with that then , I'm comfortable actually asking the project
> >> >> (and ASF) for permission to use the 'real' logo this way.
> >> >>
> >> >> What do you think?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > The problem is this.   You are not asking permission (as far as I can
> >> > tell) to distribute a CD with the given art work, along the lines of
> >> > what Hirano-san did a while back.    You are asking permission to use
> >> > the logo in artwork where others (unknown to us) would then be
> >> > downloading he artwork and would be doing the redistribution.  So even
> >> > if we did give you permission to use the logos, that permission would
> >> > not be transferred to the 3rd parties.
> >> >
> >> > Expressed another way:
> >> >
> >> > Your art work is a sum of three sets of rights:
> >> >
> >> > 1) The rights of the copyright holders of the underlying graphical
> >> > elements that you have reused.
> >> >
> >> > 2) Your rights to your original creation.
> >> >
> >> > 3) ASF's rights to control use of its trademarks.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > #1 is already taken care of by the applicable license, whatever it is.
> >> >
> >> > #2 is whatever you want it to be, so long as it is compatible with #1.
> >> > You determine the license you want.
> >> >
> >> > #3 We can give permission for you to use the logo.  We've done that before.
> >> >
> >> > But that is purely from your perspective.  What about the perspective
> >> > of the person using art work and affixing it to a CD?
> >> >
> >> > #1 and #2 are OK.  Open source licenses transfer rights.  That is a
> >> > core principle.  But from trademark perspective, this is not true, so
> >> > giving you permission to use the logo doesn't help those who download
> >> > your artwork.   And I think it would be unlikely for us to grant that
> >> > permission without a set of constraints similar to what we did with
> >> > the "Get it here!" logo.
> >> >
> >> > Hopefully this makes sense.
> >> >
> >> > -Rob
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well given this response...more questions
> >>
> >> Rob, are you saying,  that since some of the "artwork" on the site that
> >> contains logo(s), whose use has been previously given; and even though
> >> these pieces of art have already been licensed in some way allowing
> >> perhaps for modification, that because they contain a logo (trademarked)
> >> that people wanting to use these art pieces have to again ask permission
> >> because of the logo inclusion?
> >>
> >> This seems to be counter to the licenses attached to these entities to me.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Howdy Kay, Rob
> >
> >
> > Actually I don't think it is really - and in reading Rob's reply he and
> > I are looking at, thinking about the same difference here. This is not
> > the same IMO as requesting to produce a run of CD's, or a single
> > publisher's request. Precisely why I've been so obtuse, perhaps.
> >
> > Where we (rob and I) I think diverge is what happens with the CC By-ND
> > license, it seems to me to fulfill the requirements needed.
> >
> 
> OK.  I didn't notice the significance of the ND.  That might work.
> But we'd need to connect the dots, e.g., the ISO is ND, and the
> artwork can only be used with that ISO, etc.
> 

Right - and why I said earlier "using this CC3-by-nd for each piece and
for the iso image as a whole."

Will stop hijacking this thread then and pop back to the thread about
the cd image with specifics and see about posting the actual email to
the PPMC/Trademark groups requesting permission to proceed in the
morning.

Thanks,

//drew


> > Anyone could use the files to produce a CD and then give it away, sell
> > it even, without any contact - but they can not legally alter anything,
> > I have not transfered any rights to any trademarks whatsoever, in fact
> > should someone contact me and ask to make alterations I would have no
> > right to allow them to to do so, of course they would be welcome to do
> > so _BUT_ that immediately means that they then need to clear the use of
> > the trademarks with the project directly.
> >
> > Least that is how I see it.
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback,
> >
> > //drew
> >
> 



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