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From Pedro Giffuni <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Rules of voting for new committers and PPMC members
Date Mon, 04 Jun 2012 02:30:09 GMT
...

--- Dom 3/6/12, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> ha scritto:
...

> > 
> > On 06/03/2012 11:48 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> >> FWIW,
> >> 
> >> The Foundation Roles are explained here:
> >> 
> >> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles
> > 
> > yes, this is standard ASF policy.
> > 
> > My question/concern at this point would be --
> > 
> > how well do we think this works for Apache OpenOffice?
> 
> The PPMC has had the practice of making Committers into PPMC
> members on the same VOTE. This is the practice for some
> Apache projects, but not all. I think that from now on this
> project should always have separate votes as a matter of
> policy.
>
> What do others think?
 
I agree. But I see two level of problems:

1) Pootle. At this time it's not possible to identify
contributors and the PPMC is basically forced to
bring them in as committers. Here the committer+PPMC
vote is usually abused.

2) The PPMC has a tendency to bring in non-developers
that usually don't need to be committers at all. I am
not sure this fits strictly the Apache model but while
it is clear that not all contributions are in code
form, there is no other way of empowering them that
does not go through making them committers first.

If there were a way to make people members of the
(P)PMC without making them committers I am sure that
would be used a lot but it would seem meritocratically
incorrect to bring into the PPMC people that are not
committers but not offer the same opportunity to
committers by default.

Pedro.


> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Pretty much in line to what you are thinking.
> >> 
> >> Pedro.
> >> 
> >> --- Dom 3/6/12, Yong Lin Ma<mayongl@gmail.com> 
> ha scritto:
> >> 
> >>> This was a discussion about rules of
> >>> voting for new committer and PPMC
> >>> member. We think it is more appropriate to let
> all
> >>> contributors get
> >>> involved in this. So I moved the discussion to
> ooo-dev.
> >>> 
> >>> General process about voting in a new committer
> and PPMC
> >>> member is here
> >>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
> >>> 
> >>> By far the practice is most candidates were
> voted for
> >>> committer and
> >>> PPMC member at the same time.
> >>> And no concreate critrial defined in public for
> AOO.
> >>> 
> >>> Your comments are welcomed.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> A comment from Rob:
> >>> 
> >>>> If it were entirely up to me I'd have it be
> like:
> >>> 
> >>>> 1) Contributor -- anyone who contributes to
> the project,
> >>> mailing list
> >>> discussions, patches, translations, bug
> reports, doc,
> >>> support.� This
> >>> comes in all flavors and sizes.� We need to
> do a better
> >>> job giving
> >>> them credit and acknowledging their
> contributions.� If
> >>> the feeling is
> >>> that someone is not valued unless they are
> voted in as a
> >>> PPMC member,
> >>> then we're doing something wrong.
> >>> 
> >>>> 2) Committer -- The threshold question:�
> Do we
> >>> trust their judgement
> >>> with respect to the area of their
> contributions?� The
> >>> move from
> >>> contributor to committer is a move from RTC
> (patches must be
> >>> reviewed)
> >>> to CTR.� So we really need to have a sense
> that they
> >>> are doing quality
> >>> work.� Committers also have veto rights on
> all of our
> >>> commits.� So we
> >>> need to trust their judgement.
> >>> 
> >>>> 3) PMC member -- The threshold question:�
> Do they
> >>> understand The
> >>> Apache Way and our community-based decision
> making? On
> >>> average are
> >>> they solving more community problems than they
> are
> >>> causing?� Are they
> >>> helping others in the community succeed?�
> When we
> >>> graduate, and our
> >>> Mentors move on to other podlings, the PMC
> collectively
> >>> needs to
> >>> mentor new members to the project.� So I
> think the PMC
> >>> is more about
> >>> trusting their community skills rather than
> their technical
> >>> skills.
> >>> 
> >>>> It might be possible for someone to qualify
> for 2 and 3
> >>> at the same
> >>> time.� But probably not in every case.
> >>> 
> >>>> Note:� This is not how we have operated
> >>> previously.� I think there was
> >>> an bootstrapping issue where we needed to have
> a PPMC
> >>> suitably large
> >>> and diverse to provide balance.� We also
> obviously
> >>> started with a PPMC
> >>> consisting of people who did not fully
> understand
> >>> Apache.� That is the
> >>> nature of Incubation.� But I don't think this
> approach
> >>> is necessarily
> >>> something we should continue with a year later,
> as we
> >>> approach
> >>> graduation.
> >>> 
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> > 
> > "So let it rock, let it roll
> > Let the bible belt come and save my soul
> > Hold on to sixteen as long as you can
> > Changes come around real soon make us woman and men."
> >          -- "Jack and Diane",
> John Mellencamp
> 

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