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Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:39:51 -0400
Message-ID: 
 <CAP-ksogQt_e-XbHk32u02mZnjkFwxdE+HdL-9r1VOBQ6=vPfxg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] "Get it here" community download promotion program
From: Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
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On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-05-14 at 10:57 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Roberto Galoppini <rgaloppini@geek.net>=
 wrote:
>> > On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > On May 13, 2012, at 7:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> We get regular requests from individuals and companies that want t=
o
>> >> >> add a link to the AOO download, and to use the logo with it. =C2=
=A0These
>> >> >> range from websites of individual users, to websites that aggregat=
e
>> >> >> download links for many open source projects.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Currently, requesting and receiving such permission requires a req=
uest
>> >> >> to the PMC, approval and then additional approval by the Apache VP
>> >> >> Branding.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'd like to propose a streamlined approach where we can give blank=
et
>> >> >> permission, without an additional request, for using a specific lo=
go
>> >> >> (the one that Drew designed) for a specific download situation. =
=C2=A0If
>> >> >> there are no objections from the PMC, and we get a +1 from
>> >> >> Trademarks@, I'll write this up on the website.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> =3DUse of the Apache OpenOffice Download Promotion Logo=3D
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Anyone, without additional permission from this project, may use t=
he
>> >> >> following logo subject to the following conditions:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The logo:
>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27834483/get=
-aoo-300x100-cf.png?version=3D1&modificationDate=3D1331970198000
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [NB. We should move this to a more memorable location]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Conditions:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. The logo may not be modified except to resize it. =C2=A0If tran=
slations
>> >> >> of the "Get it here!" text are required, send a request to the ooo=
-dev
>> >> >> list and we can provide a translated version for you.
>> >> >
>> >> > There should be a minimum size.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Did you have a specific size in mind? =C2=A0Or would we state it more
>> >> qualitatively, like "The logo may be resized, provided it remains
>> >> legible, but may not be otherwise altered".
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. The image must be linked to one of:
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> This should probably be wored as "The image must be directly linked t=
o
>> >> one of..." =C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't think we want to allow use of the log=
o in cases
>> >> where it links to a different install program that installs adware an=
d
>> >> then invokes the real installer.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Agree 100%, unfortunately few downloads websites add adware, tool-bars=
 as
>> > well as malicious software.
>> > You might want to explicitely state that the download page can't be
>> > wrapped, though.
>> >
>>
>> To be precise: =C2=A0if someone "wraps" the download, then they are not
>> eligible for this "Get it here!" program that would give automatic
>> permission to use this specific logo. =C2=A0But if they have a good reas=
on
>> for wrapping, then they are free to do that in two ways;
>>
>> 1) By not using the AOO logos
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2) By requesting explicit permission to use the AOO logos. =C2=A0We woul=
d
>> evaluate these requests on a case-by-case basis, just as we do now for
>> all requests.
>>
>>
>> So the point of the logo program is not to define absolute
>> prohibitions. =C2=A0The idea is just to carve out an area that we are
>> comfortable allowing the use of the logo without any further review by
>> the PMC. =C2=A0IMHO this should include restrictions that prevent the mo=
st
>> common abuses that we are aware of. =C2=A0But this is not an absolute
>> prohibition. =C2=A0It just means if you want to do something outside of
>> this particular promotion program you need to take the longer path of
>> asking explicit permission.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Yes, I understand the details of what we are talking about, thanks.
>
> First - To my thinking there is really only one issue - do they deliver
> an unaltered copy of the official binary release package?
>

If I put up a website that uses the "Get it Here!" logo, and that
button links to a custom installer.exe program that first downloads
and installs malware, and then invokes the real AOO installer, then I
don't think that should be covered.  Do you?

The fact that it eventually "delivers" an unaltered copy of AOO is
nice, but the fact that our logo is used to entice users to install
malware should be a concern to this PMC.

Do you really disagree with this?

> If yes, they are in compliance and how they do so is of no concern to
> us.
>

Compliance is whatever we define it to be,

> If no, then they are not in compliance and we should ask them to change
> or stop.ok, well actually I disagree with some of where Rob is heading
> with this
>
> However that is for the most general case.
>
> In this specific case, an expedited, no request required use, I agree
> that one adds conditions.
>
> My only real concern here is that these conditions should be kept to an
> absolute bare minimum. The vast majority of folks who will do this are
> honest agents and they will try to comply, for those who would do
> something a bit nefarious they won't care what we write.
>
> So - I would just stick with:
>
> They must acknowledge (disclose) the trademark owner (ASF) on their
> site.
>

The fact that they link directly to the download site is sufficient
acknowledgement.  Otherwise we're making it harder for them to use the
logo.

> I would just give one link and say this is what you use:
> http://www.openoffice.org/download/
>

That approach is not very NL friendly since it takes them to an
English only page.

Do have a specific concern with allowing links to the NL home pages?

> Finally, I would insist that the actual link be tied to the graphic - if
> you fly the graphic then clicking on the image must take you to that
> address - i.e Get it Here!
>

OK.  I already had that as a requirement.

> end of requirements.
>

So what are your specific concerns about:

1) Not allowing the image to be altered?  That is a standard
restriction.  What's the issue?

2) Providing translations on request?  Is that really something you
would not allow?

3) Again, the question of saying "directly linking" to the download,
to make it unambiguous that inserting installer.exe's is not covered.
 Remember this is not a hypothetical, but is a current concern that is
happening today and is harming our users.  Why would you not aim to
cover this very real case?

The overarching issue, in case it is not clear, is not that we would
use this program to shut down those sites that are abusing our
trademarks.  That's not the point.  The point is we should not define
a policy so permissive that those sites can use it has a defense
if/when we do decide to ask them to stop abusing our trademark.  We
don't want our blanket permission to be stated so broadly that it
covers those actions that we do not condone.

> In the case of the particular use request before us, that site as
> currently constructed would actually fail those requirements (The logo's
> used do not link, rather they have a separate download button) - but it
> would be easy enough for them to come into compliance. (having the
> download button in addition to the image link would not be an issue)
>
> The only other question in my mind is whether to let them have the logo
> or make them reference the logo from our servers - I've set this type of
> thing up both ways and don't really have a strong preference. In this
> specific situation I would lean to the 'we dish up the image' route,
> only because the branding is in a state of flux and it makes it easy to
> execute the branding change with minimal fuss on our part down the road.
>

Infra@ might have an opinion.  Generally we don't want "hot" files on
our website.  But the logo is not large.

> Anyway - just my thoughts.
>
> //drew
>
>>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Roberto
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> a) the http://www.openoffice.org webpage
>> >> >> b) one of the official Native Language pages at openoffice.org, e.=
g.,
>> >> >> http://de.openoffice.org
>> >> >> c) the download page for Apache OpenOffice:
>> >> >> http://download.openoffice.org or
>> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 3. The logo must not link to a specific download file or mirror. =
=C2=A0This
>> >> >> causes problems with load balancing and fallbacks and may prevent
>> >> >> users from getting the latest version of OpenOffice.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 4. Any use Apache-owned logos beyond the above is not covered by t=
his
>> >> >> program an must be explicitly requested from the ASF.
>> >> >
>> >> > +1 to the proposal.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Dave
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
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>
>