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From Yong Lin Ma <mayo...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Date Thu, 24 May 2012 14:19:36 GMT
Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
that, if we a decision must be made in the end.




On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
<paulo.s.lima@varekai.org> wrote:
> 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
>> <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
>> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jogischmidt@googlemail.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jogischmidt@googlemail.com>
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Erik,
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
>> members? I
>> >> > > don't
>> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong
direction.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call
UX a
>> >> > > "community".
>> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of
the
>> project
>> >> and
>> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution
>> in
>> >> the
>> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change
from
>> time to
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > time.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are
free to
>> >> decide
>> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't
see a
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > problem
>> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project,
I would
>> >> like to
>> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from
the
>> user's
>> >> point
>> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they
have.
>> And
>> >> a new
>> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with
the UX
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > activities
>> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the
work and is
>> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is
doing
>> the
>> >> job,
>> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue
about
>> >> that.
>> >> > > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues.
It's
>> matter
>> >> of
>> >> > > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone
can
>> >> drive
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > his
>> >> > > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you
an
>> >> example we
>> >> > > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in
AOO: Me
>> >> and
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Raul
>> >> > > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations
>> page
>> >> which
>> >> > > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here
too.
>> When
>> >> > > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate
it,
>> >> submit
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > it
>> >> > > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every
>> contributor
>> >> > >
>> >> > > will
>> >> > > > be recorded.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a
>> >> community/team
>> >> > > page
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would
>> call
>> >> it
>> >> > a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds
>> better
>> >> =)
>> >> >
>> >> > How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki
>> maintenance,
>> >> > for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones.
>> I
>> >> > couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton
>> questioned
>> >> me
>> >> > about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
>> >> > editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
>> >> > discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find
out
>> >> that
>> >> > TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not
>> >> anywhere
>> >> > in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing
>> what?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better
wiki
>> as I
>> >> > > have
>> >> > > > asked for some days ago.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where
is
>> the
>> >> > > relation to a people page?
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for
the
>> >> last
>> >> > 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply
it
>> >> > getting information from other systems, like CMS.
>> >> > Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to
a
>> good
>> >> > ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > We have already a general project page with project
members that
>> >> > > doesn't
>> >> > > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general"
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> > > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers
to AOO
>> >> users,
>> >> > > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to
find
>> what
>> >> they
>> >> > > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people
to fill
>> an
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > issue
>> >> > > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And
it's
>> >> worst
>> >> > >
>> >> > > for
>> >> > > > those who can't read/write in English.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here.
It
>> >> would
>> >> > > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let
us
>> >> think
>> >> > > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > But do think that a page with some names will change anything
here?
>> >> >
>> >> > It depends on who are managing that page.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view
and get
>> >> > > outdated
>> >> > > > > very fast.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction.
>> If
>> >> UX
>> >> > > has
>> >> > > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves,
they will
>> >> take
>> >> > > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic
>> >> people
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > at
>> >> > > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless
if
>> UX
>> >> > > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because
UX
>> >> should
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > be
>> >> > > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go
down
>> very
>> >> > >
>> >> > > quickly.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have
to
>> be
>> >> > > done. That means that people have to convince other people from
>> their
>> >> > > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on
their
>> >> own.
>> >> > > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance
>> that
>> >> > > somebody will implement it.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
>> >> > extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
>> >> > Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure
>> >> mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there,
>> ask
>> >> people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you
>> >> need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the
>> same
>> >> way and got the rights I need for pootle.
>> >>
>> >> Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it.
>> What
>> >> your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to
>> maintain
>> >> the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
>> >>
>> >> Juergen
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Juergen
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Paulo de Souza Lima
>> >> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
>> >> > Curitiba - PR
>> >> > Linux User #432358
>> >> > Ubuntu User #28729
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > Thanks for interest in UX.
>> >
>> > As for name, I must admit that I'm new to the effort, and the guidance
>> from
>> > PPMC and others, has, well, been subjective and contradictory at best. If
>> > the community wants to establish team/group/sub-community/gang naming
>> > protocols, then please share when available.
>> >
>>
>> It is cultural, but generally there is only one team here:  the Apache
>> OpenOffice team, and we're all members of it.   There may be a
>> self-selected group of individuals working on a common task for a
>> period of time.  But we avoid having that lead to the development of
>> segregated groups or hierarchies.   So it grates a bit on my ear to
>> read 'UX will do this", or similar.  IMHO just say, "I will do this".
>>  We're all contributing as individuals.
>>
>> > For example, we were told to not use the term "team", as is was reserved
>> > for the PPMC "team". Then, we were told not to use community and use
>> > "team". As for UX guys", that is a non-starter for the obvious reasons.
>> >
>>
>> Right.   So factually "UX" is a topic, and various individuals are
>> interested in that topic, and this interest will come and go, and
>> change over time due to changes in overall project composition as well
>> as competing priorities.
>>
>> > A key theme was that everyone wanted us not to fragment the broader team
>> or
>> > community - which makes sense. However, we are trying to reinvigorate the
>> > UX effort and could really use your support right now to help us
>> > re-establish ourselves. Diversity is key to the health of the project,
>> it's
>> > OK if some people want to focus on different aspect of the offering.
>> Let's
>> > support each other in their individual pursuits, and work to connect such
>> > activity to the larger community.
>> >
>>
>> This is all good.  But it does not require explicit identification as
>> a "team".
>>
>> > We will rename to "UX team", which is easiest and most appropriate. We
>> will
>> > continue to use the [UX] email subject prefix, and only reference UX team
>> > in relation to UX-specific task assignments.
>> >
>>
>> Who is "we"?
>>
>
>
> I think I got your point. You're right. There's no need to identify some
> people as a "group". But, in fact, there are some "groups", for example,
> the "infra group", "cws group", "brazilian volunteers group", "italian
> volunteers group", and so on. That's because it's needed some admin rights
> to do their tasks, or because regional identification, not because they are
> separated groups. Giving my opinion in this list, I'm giving it
> individually and not in the name of the "groups" I can identify myself to.
> At least, I understand this way. Correct me If I understood it wrong.
>
> So, I think those interested in work in UX continue to manifest their
> opinions and let's move on, right? =)
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Kevin
>>
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729

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