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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Starting the graduation process
Date Tue, 29 May 2012 22:50:56 GMT
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On May 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Pedro Giffuni <pfg@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi Drew;
>>>
>>> --- Mar 29/5/12, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes the situation was specifically postponed as a graduation
>>>>>>> issue, I am not going through that discussion again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I made a concrete proposal with two alternatives:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - They are moved to a friendly ftp/http site.
>>>>>>> - I step down from the PPMC to avoid the community
>>>>>>> the pain of a -1 vote.
>>>>>>
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Could be - it was just the way Pedro phrased his comment I
>>>> thought perhaps his thinking was being influenced by the
>>>> earlier remarks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The idea that we have remaining issues with Category-B
>>> tarballs in the tree has been around since before the
>>> release, and one of our mentors (Ross I recall) did
>>> acknowledge my point of view.
>>>
>>
>> Again, I don't see an issue here.  But if you feel strongly about this
>> you are welcome to copy the ext_sources over to Apache Extras and do a
>> trivial update of the build script.   Whatever makes you happy.  But
>> I'd find it odd if any substantial issue of policy could really be
>> addressed by simply changing a URL.  To me that sounds like worshiping
>> some formalism rather than actually understanding the policy and its
>> intentions.
>
> There are issues with these embedded convenience packages.
>
> (1) Some are Category B. An issue to some more than others.
>
> (2) Some are patched versions of existing open-source packages. We should attempt to
push these upstream. The COINMP patch looks trivial. We may need to have special builds, but
we should be avoiding and removing.
>
> (3) Some are specific versions of open-source packages. We should try to get official
distributions and use a version at Apache Extras as a known version.
>
> (4) Some are versions of Apache open-source packages. We should use the appropriate release
or archive from the project.
>
>
> ext_sources dave$ ls -1
> 0168229624cfac409e766913506961a8-ucpp-1.3.2.tar.gz
> 067201ea8b126597670b5eff72e1f66c-mythes-1.2.0.tar.gz
> 0b49ede71c21c0599b0cc19b353a6cb3-README_apache-commons.txt
> 128cfc86ed5953e57fe0f5ae98b62c2e-libtextcat-2.2.tar.gz
> 17410483b5b5f267aa18b7e00b65e6e0-hsqldb_1_8_0.zip
> 1756c4fa6c616ae15973c104cd8cb256-Adobe-Core35_AFMs-314.tar.gz
> 18f577b374d60b3c760a3a3350407632-STLport-4.5.tar.gz
> 1f24ab1d39f4a51faf22244c94a6203f-xmlsec1-1.2.14.tar.gz
> 220035f111ea045a51e290906025e8b5-libpng-1.5.1.tar.gz
> 24be19595acad0a2cae931af77a0148a-LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html
> 284e768eeda0e2898b0d5bf7e26a016e-raptor-1.4.18.tar.gz
> 2ae988b339daec234019a7066f96733e-commons-lang-2.3-src.tar.gz
> 2b5f1ca58d6ef30f18f1415b65bed81c-CoinMP-1.6.0.tgz
> 2c9b0f83ed5890af02c0df1c1776f39b-commons-httpclient-3.1-src.tar.gz
> 2f6ecca935948f7db92d925d88d0d078-icu4c-4_0_1-src.tgz
> 35efabc239af896dfb79be7ebdd6e6b9-gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip
> 377a60170e5185eb63d3ed2fae98e621-README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt
> 3b179ed18f65c43141528aa6d2440db4-serf-1.0.0.tar.bz2
> 3c219630e4302863a9a83d0efde889db-commons-logging-1.1.1-src.tar.gz
> 48470d662650c3c074e1c3fabbc67bbd-README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt
> 48a9f787f43a09c0a9b7b00cd1fddbbf-hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz
> 48d8169acc35f97e05d8dcdfd45be7f2-lucene-2.3.2.tar.gz
> 61f59e4110781cbe66b46449eadac231-croscorefonts-1.21.0.tar.gz
> 63ddc5116488985e820075e65fbe6aa4-openssl-0.9.8o.tar.gz
> 666a5d56098a9debf998510e304c8095-apr-util-1.4.1.tar.gz
> 68dd2e8253d9a7930e9fd50e2d7220d0-hunspell-1.2.9.tar.gz
> 7376930b0d3f3d77a685d94c4a3acda8-STLport-4.5-0119.tar.gz
> 7740a8ec23878a2f50120e1faa2730f2-libxml2-2.7.6.tar.gz
> 7e4e73c21f031d5a4c93c128baf7fd75-apache-tomcat-5.5.35-src.tar.gz
> 97262fe54dddaf583eaaee3497a426e1-apr-1.4.5.tar.gz
> 980143f96b3f6ce45d2e4947da21a5e9-stax-src-1.2.0.zip
> 99d94103662a8d0b571e247a77432ac5-rhino1_7R3.zip
> a169ab152209200a7bad29a275cb0333-seamonkey-1.1.14.source.tar.gz
> a2c10c04f396a9ce72894beb18b4e1f9-jpeg-8c.tar.gz
> a7983f859eafb2677d7ff386a023bc40-xsltml_2.1.2.zip
> ada24d37d8d638b3d8a9985e80bc2978-source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip
> af3c3acf618de6108d65fcdc92b492e1-commons-codec-1.3-src.tar.gz
> b92261a5679276c400555004937af965-nss-3.12.6-with-nspr-4.8.4.tar.gz
> bc702168a2af16869201dbe91e46ae48-LICENSE_Python-2.6.1
> c441926f3a552ed3e5b274b62e86af16-STLport-4.0.tar.gz
> c735eab2d659a96e5a594c9e8541ad63-zlib-1.2.5.tar.gz
> ca66e26082cab8bb817185a116db809b-redland-1.0.8.tar.gz
> cf8a6967f7de535ae257fa411c98eb88-mdds_0.3.0.tar.bz2
> d35724900f6a4105550293686688bbb3-silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz
> e61d0364a30146aaa3001296f853b2b9-libxslt-1.1.26.tar.gz
> e81c2f0953aa60f8062c05a4673f2be0-Python-2.6.1.tar.bz2
> ea570af93c284aa9e5621cd563f54f4d-bsh-2.0b1-src.tar.gz
> ea91f2fb4212a21d708aced277e6e85a-vigra1.4.0.tar.gz
> ecb2e37e45c9933e2a963cabe03670ab-curl-7.19.7.tar.gz
> ee8b492592568805593f81f8cdf2a04c-expat-2.0.1.tar.gz
> f872f4ac066433d8ff92f5e316b36ff9-dejavu-fonts-ttf-2.33.zip
> fca8706f2c4619e2fa3f8f42f8fc1e9d-rasqal-0.9.16.tar.gz
> fcc6df1160753d0b8c835d17fdeeb0a7-boost_1_39_0.tar.gz
> fdb27bfe2dbe2e7b57ae194d9bf36bab-SampleICC-1.3.2.tar.gz
>
> Do we seriously need to carry our own version of Python 2.6.1? Aren't the Adobe Base
35 AFMs good for all. There must be a common location.
>

I'll assert that we need to maintain these exact files for as long as
we maintain the 3.4.x release stream.  Think of 3.4.1, security
patches, etc.  But there is certainly room for improvement in a 3.5 or
4.0 stream.  And as I said before, if anyone thinks that merely
relocating these dependencies to a non-Apache server solves anything,
then great.

The real question is whether anyone really thinks that it is necessary
that we either break our 3.4.x stream, or that we wait for a major
update with AOO 3.5 before we can graduate?


> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>>
>>> I did offer to step down then but I don't mean to make
>>> a big issue out of this. If I step down it will be
>>> communicated in the private list exclusively. I would
>>> still be a committer and nothing would really change
>>> for me.
>>>
>>> What I feel is disappointing is the lack of
>>> acknowledgement that there *is* an issue. Category-B
>>> software can be included in releases in binary form
>>> but it should be otherwise actively discouraged, and in
>>> general unsupported: it should not be included in the
>>> buildbots and using it should be, in general terms, a
>>> PITA.
>>>
>>> IMHO this project benefited greatly from the Category-X
>>> replacement and in general I would like the project to
>>> head in a direction that will lead to greater license
>>> and code simplification but the current situation where
>>> we work-around the policy issues instead of solving them
>>> is (again IMO) unacceptable.
>>>
>>> Pedro.
>

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