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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
Date Fri, 18 May 2012 18:03:33 GMT
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
<> wrote:
> 2012/5/18 Rob Weir <>
> <snip>
>> Not really.  I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not
>> want to do.  And I'm not going to speculate on what "the project"
>> wants to do, whatever the heck that means.
>> Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some
>> hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some
>> hypothetical grant.  We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with
>> such questions that have not actually occurred here.
>> Instead, let's ask of the here and now:  Is there anything any
>> volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they
>> cannot do?  I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or
>> language.  Let's make a list.
> Well, as long as you've opened a channel, I have something to say about it.
> 1 - I think, because I am a brand new vollunteer, and I'm not a commiter, I
> can't get admin access to the wiki, wiki servers and wiki database, in
> order to do what I want/plan to do in it. And I don't know who can do it
> for me, because TJ has told me it's possible that there's no vollunteer
> familiar enough with Mediawiki who can do that in infra team (upgrading and
> installing extensions). So my hands are tied. Just like many users, I am
> unable to find quick answers to my questions and unable to try solving this
> problem =)

But what do you want to do?

Even if you had admin access you should not make major changes without
first proposing them on the list and seeing if anyone objected.

I'd recommend that you start with a proposal for what you want to do.
 Put it in a new [PROPOSAL] thread on ooo-dev.   Once we've discussed
the proposal, then we can worry about the access controls.

> 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they
> can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least
> three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre.

What do the volunteers want to do?

If a volunteer wants to contribute code, they need to understand C++.
If they want to contribute to the website design then they need to
understand HTML/CSS.  And so on.  There are basic per-requisite skills
needed.  And across all of these there is the need to be able to
read/write English.   I don't see how this can be avoided.  But there
is no need to be fluent.  In fact, I bet we could work via Google
Translations, if we were patient.  But if someone is good with C++ or
with HTML or other technical skills, then I think we can find a way
for them to contribute, even with minimal English skills.

In other words, we need to be able to communicate together as a
project -- all of us.   But we don't need to have huge discussion
threads.  In fact Lazy Consensus and JFDI both encourage getting
things done over having lengthy discussions about non controversial

> 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach
> this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with
> "famous people" like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place
> (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood.

My philosophy with this project was to try to be the first person to
make every possible mistake.  I looked for things that no was trying,
and did them, just to show that it could be done.  I didn't care if I
looked foolish.  I think we need more people willing to take that kind
of risk.  I think you will find that the project is very "forgiving"
of English learners.

> 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we
> faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is
> a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people
> not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain
> clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO.

We receive and approve trademark and logo requests all the time.  We
just need a proposal.  I can't guarantee that every proposal will be
approved, but at least we have a process for reviewing such proposals:


> Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the
> portuguese word "sisudo", so I placed the word "serious". Maybe someone can
> help me because Google Translate couldn't.  =)
>> IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of
>> knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working
>> for this project.  Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good
>> portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning
>> experiences the initial PMC members had last year.
> That's a fact!
>> So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we
>> have.  We might be able to deal with those.  But I doubt there will be
>> much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems.
> Well, those I described above are not hypothetical.
>> -Rob
> Thanks for this opening.
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729

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