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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Starting the graduation process
Date Tue, 29 May 2012 22:01:48 GMT

On May 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Pedro Giffuni <pfg@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi Drew;
>> 
>> --- Mar 29/5/12, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> ha scritto:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes the situation was specifically postponed as a graduation
>>>>>> issue, I am not going through that discussion again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I made a concrete proposal with two alternatives:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - They are moved to a friendly ftp/http site.
>>>>>> - I step down from the PPMC to avoid the community
>>>>>> the pain of a -1 vote.
>>>>> 
>> ...
>>> 
>>> Could be - it was just the way Pedro phrased his comment I
>>> thought perhaps his thinking was being influenced by the
>>> earlier remarks.
>>> 
>> 
>> The idea that we have remaining issues with Category-B
>> tarballs in the tree has been around since before the
>> release, and one of our mentors (Ross I recall) did
>> acknowledge my point of view.
>> 
> 
> Again, I don't see an issue here.  But if you feel strongly about this
> you are welcome to copy the ext_sources over to Apache Extras and do a
> trivial update of the build script.   Whatever makes you happy.  But
> I'd find it odd if any substantial issue of policy could really be
> addressed by simply changing a URL.  To me that sounds like worshiping
> some formalism rather than actually understanding the policy and its
> intentions.

There are issues with these embedded convenience packages.

(1) Some are Category B. An issue to some more than others.

(2) Some are patched versions of existing open-source packages. We should attempt to push
these upstream. The COINMP patch looks trivial. We may need to have special builds, but we
should be avoiding and removing.

(3) Some are specific versions of open-source packages. We should try to get official distributions
and use a version at Apache Extras as a known version.

(4) Some are versions of Apache open-source packages. We should use the appropriate release
or archive from the project.


ext_sources dave$ ls -1
0168229624cfac409e766913506961a8-ucpp-1.3.2.tar.gz
067201ea8b126597670b5eff72e1f66c-mythes-1.2.0.tar.gz
0b49ede71c21c0599b0cc19b353a6cb3-README_apache-commons.txt
128cfc86ed5953e57fe0f5ae98b62c2e-libtextcat-2.2.tar.gz
17410483b5b5f267aa18b7e00b65e6e0-hsqldb_1_8_0.zip
1756c4fa6c616ae15973c104cd8cb256-Adobe-Core35_AFMs-314.tar.gz
18f577b374d60b3c760a3a3350407632-STLport-4.5.tar.gz
1f24ab1d39f4a51faf22244c94a6203f-xmlsec1-1.2.14.tar.gz
220035f111ea045a51e290906025e8b5-libpng-1.5.1.tar.gz
24be19595acad0a2cae931af77a0148a-LICENSE_source-9.0.0.7-bj.html
284e768eeda0e2898b0d5bf7e26a016e-raptor-1.4.18.tar.gz
2ae988b339daec234019a7066f96733e-commons-lang-2.3-src.tar.gz
2b5f1ca58d6ef30f18f1415b65bed81c-CoinMP-1.6.0.tgz
2c9b0f83ed5890af02c0df1c1776f39b-commons-httpclient-3.1-src.tar.gz
2f6ecca935948f7db92d925d88d0d078-icu4c-4_0_1-src.tgz
35efabc239af896dfb79be7ebdd6e6b9-gentiumbasic-fonts-1.10.zip
377a60170e5185eb63d3ed2fae98e621-README_silgraphite-2.3.1.txt
3b179ed18f65c43141528aa6d2440db4-serf-1.0.0.tar.bz2
3c219630e4302863a9a83d0efde889db-commons-logging-1.1.1-src.tar.gz
48470d662650c3c074e1c3fabbc67bbd-README_source-9.0.0.7-bj.txt
48a9f787f43a09c0a9b7b00cd1fddbbf-hyphen-2.7.1.tar.gz
48d8169acc35f97e05d8dcdfd45be7f2-lucene-2.3.2.tar.gz
61f59e4110781cbe66b46449eadac231-croscorefonts-1.21.0.tar.gz
63ddc5116488985e820075e65fbe6aa4-openssl-0.9.8o.tar.gz
666a5d56098a9debf998510e304c8095-apr-util-1.4.1.tar.gz
68dd2e8253d9a7930e9fd50e2d7220d0-hunspell-1.2.9.tar.gz
7376930b0d3f3d77a685d94c4a3acda8-STLport-4.5-0119.tar.gz
7740a8ec23878a2f50120e1faa2730f2-libxml2-2.7.6.tar.gz
7e4e73c21f031d5a4c93c128baf7fd75-apache-tomcat-5.5.35-src.tar.gz
97262fe54dddaf583eaaee3497a426e1-apr-1.4.5.tar.gz
980143f96b3f6ce45d2e4947da21a5e9-stax-src-1.2.0.zip
99d94103662a8d0b571e247a77432ac5-rhino1_7R3.zip
a169ab152209200a7bad29a275cb0333-seamonkey-1.1.14.source.tar.gz
a2c10c04f396a9ce72894beb18b4e1f9-jpeg-8c.tar.gz
a7983f859eafb2677d7ff386a023bc40-xsltml_2.1.2.zip
ada24d37d8d638b3d8a9985e80bc2978-source-9.0.0.7-bj.zip
af3c3acf618de6108d65fcdc92b492e1-commons-codec-1.3-src.tar.gz
b92261a5679276c400555004937af965-nss-3.12.6-with-nspr-4.8.4.tar.gz
bc702168a2af16869201dbe91e46ae48-LICENSE_Python-2.6.1
c441926f3a552ed3e5b274b62e86af16-STLport-4.0.tar.gz
c735eab2d659a96e5a594c9e8541ad63-zlib-1.2.5.tar.gz
ca66e26082cab8bb817185a116db809b-redland-1.0.8.tar.gz
cf8a6967f7de535ae257fa411c98eb88-mdds_0.3.0.tar.bz2
d35724900f6a4105550293686688bbb3-silgraphite-2.3.1.tar.gz
e61d0364a30146aaa3001296f853b2b9-libxslt-1.1.26.tar.gz
e81c2f0953aa60f8062c05a4673f2be0-Python-2.6.1.tar.bz2
ea570af93c284aa9e5621cd563f54f4d-bsh-2.0b1-src.tar.gz
ea91f2fb4212a21d708aced277e6e85a-vigra1.4.0.tar.gz
ecb2e37e45c9933e2a963cabe03670ab-curl-7.19.7.tar.gz
ee8b492592568805593f81f8cdf2a04c-expat-2.0.1.tar.gz
f872f4ac066433d8ff92f5e316b36ff9-dejavu-fonts-ttf-2.33.zip
fca8706f2c4619e2fa3f8f42f8fc1e9d-rasqal-0.9.16.tar.gz
fcc6df1160753d0b8c835d17fdeeb0a7-boost_1_39_0.tar.gz
fdb27bfe2dbe2e7b57ae194d9bf36bab-SampleICC-1.3.2.tar.gz

Do we seriously need to carry our own version of Python 2.6.1? Aren't the Adobe Base 35 AFMs
good for all. There must be a common location.

Regards,
Dave


> 
>> I did offer to step down then but I don't mean to make
>> a big issue out of this. If I step down it will be
>> communicated in the private list exclusively. I would
>> still be a committer and nothing would really change
>> for me.
>> 
>> What I feel is disappointing is the lack of
>> acknowledgement that there *is* an issue. Category-B
>> software can be included in releases in binary form
>> but it should be otherwise actively discouraged, and in
>> general unsupported: it should not be included in the
>> buildbots and using it should be, in general terms, a
>> PITA.
>> 
>> IMHO this project benefited greatly from the Category-X
>> replacement and in general I would like the project to
>> head in a direction that will lead to greater license
>> and code simplification but the current situation where
>> we work-around the policy issues instead of solving them
>> is (again IMO) unacceptable.
>> 
>> Pedro.


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