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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:37:57 -0700
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Subject: Re: Ditching our mirror system for an inferior solution?
From: Roberto Galoppini <rgaloppini@geek.net>
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
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On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:

> I really appreciated Peter's description of how the MirrorBrain system
> works and the history behind it.
>
> Peter is running the MirrorBrain network for the project and is the person
> who really made sure that OOo legacy downloads have continued.
>
> I know that I do not like advertising and I am not sure that having to
> police SourceForge's advertising choices for incompatible ads is anything I
> want to volunteer time for, but can that Office 365 link please go away
> yesterday?
>


All set, it won't display anymore. If you see any other ads that show up
that you don't like let us know, we'll take care of them too.

Roberto


> I don't like the way the download test was announced and done at once. It
> was JFDI and no discussion with volunteers like Marcus who understand the
> download logic.
>
> Sand can be kicked in more than one direction.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Apr 13, 2012, at 5:38 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > Bit late to pretend you're trying to be helpful
> > here with the bits about NIH you like tossing around.
> >
> > What questions are you asking again?  And what facts
> > are you pointing out?  Seems to me we had a working
> > agreementabout a month or so, settled entirely on-list,
> > but yesterday Peter pitches a fit and you decide NOW
> > is the time for complaints?  Gee if that's not kicking
> > sand in the faces of the people who worked out this
> > deal you'll have to excuse me while I figure out where
> > else all this unwanted sand could've come from.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: drew <drew@baseanswers.com>
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:31 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Ditching our mirror system for an inferior solution?
> >>
> >> On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 03:23 -0400, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >>> Right.  The plan all along was to migrate the mirrorbrain network to
> apache mirrors and supplement that with sf help.  That we all agreed to
> this only to have sand kicked in our faces again is merely status quo for
> how this project operates.
> >>
> >> No one is kicking sand in anyones faces - but I am asking questions and
> >> pointing out facts. If that is not considered acceptable practice to you
> >> then the problem is not with this project.
> >>
> >> //drew
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:00 AM, Roberto Galoppini <rgaloppini@geek.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:04 PM, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 19:39 -0700, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi Drew;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- Gio 12/4/12, drew <drew@baseanswers.com> ha scritto:
> >>>>>>> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 21:09 -0500,
> >>>>>>> Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Peter;
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> it's really amazing to see level of support and general
> >>>>>>>> service that mirrorbrain has provided historically for
> >>>>>>>> OpenOffice.
> >>>>>>>> We haven't said no to mirrorbrain but you do understand
> >>>>>>>> that we just couldn't
> >>>>>>>> turn down the extra support offered by sourceforge.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why not?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Because we just have no basis for rejecting mirrors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sure we do, groups; particularly non-profits turn down offers from
> >>>>> commercial operators all the time. Lets be clear the SF offer is not
> all
> >>>>> about contributing to the project it is also to some degree about
> their
> >>>>> commercial concerns - it is their business model.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's be very clear about how we got here in the first place. As of
> the
> >>>> 19th of March we were told by Infra that our help was welcomed. Just
> like
> >>>> for the Extensions/Templates we committed to help, describing in
> detail
> >>>> what we planned to do, eventually getting the green light on that
> plan.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Personally, I'm not totally ad adverse, but there really needs to be
> a
> >>>>> good reason for doing so IMO and I certainly am not eager about
> dishing
> >>>>> up ads to try a free subscription to MSO 365 while waiting for your
> AOO
> >>>>> download to finish - if it can be reasonably avoided.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We are used to working with projects to make sure that displayed ads
> don't
> >>>> undermine the projects' mission, and we intend to work with the PPMC
> if any
> >>>> issue with competitive ads arise.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Infra did ask us to contact previous mirrors so we
> >>>>>> need them, and the more, the better.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, they did.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think you misunderstood: we really haven't voted at
> >>>>>> all concerning mirrorbrain. and there was never any
> >>>>>> notion of sourceforge's offer being exclusive. We will
> >>>>>> accept all the mirrors that offer to carry us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But SF really isn't an offer of mirror servers, it is asking us to
> >>>>> divert our traffic to their site for inclusion in their business
> >>>>> operations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We offered help exactly in the way we were asked. It is true we have
> to
> >>>> balance the needs of our business with our desire to help the
> community,
> >>>> but it's unfair to suggest that we are not acting in the best
> interest of
> >>>> Apache OpenOffice.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roberto
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I do recall infra had issues concerning how to make
> >>>>>> mirrorbrain work with the Apache mirrors but that is
> >>>>>> a completely different issue outside the scope of the
> >>>>>> PPMC or decisions that are taken here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Right - and that discussion presumed that there was a need to bring
> the
> >>>>> mirrorbrain servers into the Apache mirror network, the question is
> how
> >>>>> did that decision come about. My understanding is that this comes
> from a
> >>>>> standing policy decision at Apache, that Apache releases go out on
> >>>>> Apache mirrors - I guess that's correct?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, if that is the case then how do you reconcile SF - in the case
> of
> >>>>> extensions/templates it was easy, they are not official Apache
> >>>>> releases.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the case of the binary releases I guess it is the same thing then,
> >>>>> certainly there is plenty of reason to believe that a good portion of
> >>>>> Apache does not consider any binary release as official - just a
> >>>>> convenience, which is fine - but then we are back to the question of
> why
> >>>>> not use the system already in place - mirrorbrain?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> //drew
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pedro.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ====
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>

====
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