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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [WWW] two questions about DL button on home page...
Date Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:50:15 GMT
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Apr 26, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 04/26/2012 07:02 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/25/2012 02:29 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>
   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/25/2012 10:03 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:48 AM, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>
     wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Marcus (OOo)<marcus.mail@wtnet.de>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 04/24/2012 11:09 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2012 01:05 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 04/24/2012 07:54 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, when I click on "I want to
download OpenOffice", I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expanded green button I was getting last
week, for example. I had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to this a week or so ago, but
the changes that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorporated,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the green button itself were just fine
after that. I think my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience may be due to a problem with
getting the mirror link
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to confirm this in a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, question #1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like someone else to try this
and let the list know what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> results are -- are you getting the expanded
green button or being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shuttled
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to /download/index.html instead?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question #2. If you're not getting the
DL button, or even if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strongly do you feel about having the
expanding button, or would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump to /download/index.html be just
as good?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know there was a LOT of discussion
when this design first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emerged,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would much much easier for changes
in DL code -- Rob's proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unification of yesterday for instance
-- if we could just dump
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "internal" DL button on the home page.
Yes, the buttons are the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eye anyway on both the main index.html
page and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /download/index.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the html implementation is different,
different enough that both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas need to be changed when changes
are needed. Additionally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumping the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "generated" button on the home page would
allow us to standardize
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily on incorporating the DL button
-- the code used on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /download/index.html -- on other pages
like the NL pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for looking at this and responding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems Rob's last commit (r1329501 - "Remove
unneeded GA code")
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> removed accidently also the toggle mode for
the download button.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> done via JavaScript, too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've repaired it as the expanded donwload
button is IMHO a nice
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Marcus--Thanks for this...but...it would be really
really helpful if
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> could just do away with this approach.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to work on the underpinnings in /download
today, and not
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> home page, so I'll wait to hear from a few others.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So far, it looks like we've got 2 to "remove/OK
with removing it"
>>>>>>>>>>> (me,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave), and 1 not to remove (you).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course we can remove the toggle feature for the
green box. Lets
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> others say.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just re-enabled it because the effort was really
minimal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the arguments for and against?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For:
>>>>>>>> I think the argument FOR the inclusion of the expanding DL
button on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> home page was the idea of having the DL available "right
there" for
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>> Still, unlike other sites which would automatically display
the
>>>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>>>> DL immediately, the user must click on the DL area of the
page to "get"
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> green DL button, so I question the former reasoning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From the homepage, it is the same number of mouse clicks to
download
>>>>>>> either way, right?    We don't save any clicks by dynamically
>>>>>>> expanding the DL button on the home page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes...this is correct -- same number of clicks...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the "against" side.
>>>>>>>> * We bring in a bunch of additional JS to the home page which
we
>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>> need if the "I want to download..." simply went to download/index.html.
>>>>>>>> * None of the other links on the home page work like this
-- they all
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> you someplace else
>>>>>>>> * In theory, editing changes to make download/index.html
work should
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> port to the DL button on the home page, but for some reason,
I,
>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>> have had issues with this in the past, I don't remember why
>>>>>>>> * You can not, based on how the button is currently constructed
on the
>>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>> page, just  pop-in something to make this happen -- some
of the JS
>>>>>>>> needed
>>>>>>>> must live on the home page to make things work. Well maybe
you can and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> just don't know how to do this.
>>>>>>>> * Changes made to the current DL logic (and really this whole
process
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> terms of coding REALLY needs further evaluation)  like function
names
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> arguments to them, etc. need to be ported to two areas rather
than one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO, if we have a a dedicated download page we can improve it
over
>>>>>>> time.  Having more screen real-estate would allow us to make
install
>>>>>>> instructions more prominent and give other helpful information.
>>>>>>> Eventually the thing on the home page will be comparatively less
>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree -- just making the few changes we did recently was, while
not
>>>>>> difficult, took some futzing on the home page DL button to make things
>>>>>> LOOK
>>>>>> a bit nicer. And, I don't like making unnecessary changes ON the
home
>>>>>> page.
>>>>>> :/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My .02
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At this stage of this project's existence, I think we need
to
>>>>>>>> concentrate
>>>>>>>> on minimizing complexity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My life lesson:  Only start a garden as large as you are able
care for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EXACTLY! We definitely need to consider the number, time and skills
of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> gardeners in this case! ;]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so? conclusion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So far it looks like the support is for making this be a link to the
>>>>> download page.   That is my preference as well.   But let's let the
>>>>> earth turn and see if anyone else has thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes, I'm good with that as well...bad bad bad bad net connection day for
me!
>>>> :( so no work so far anyway...
>>>>
>>>
>>> The earth has turned, and no objections.   So let's do it!
>>
>> okie dokie!
>>
>>>
>>> Did you want to check in the change, or did you want me to?
>>>
>>> I think we can strip out all of the download logic from the home page,
>>> which should make it load faster as well.
>>
>> well I was thinking about doing it later today when I get back to work on my test
DL page (almost done with that -- will post something for folks to ponder on later today!)
but feel free to make this change earlier if you feel like it.
>>
>> I'm really very happy we came to this conclusion.
>
> This gives us a chance to reconsider the home page design around the current project.
Many of the big buttons duplicate the top nav...
>
> We could show twitter and other activity ...
>
> This should be another thread.
>

The KISS solution would be to just have a a 15 x 6 table for the
downloads.   The local detection code is needed when we have 100
languages, but with 15 supported languages in AOO 3.4 a simple table
might be fine.  Tables work even where Javascript is disabled ;-)

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Aside from a good user experience, my interest is in
having clean,
>>>>>>>>> unifiied download logic, to support an overall download
policy,
>>>>>>>>> including how we mirror, how we track statistics, how
we route and how
>>>>>>>>> we recommend downloads based on request headers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marecus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>>>>>>>  And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>>>>>>>  Helping you out."
>>>>>>>>                            -- "Ironic", Alanis
Morissette
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>>>>>  And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>>>>>  Helping you out."
>>>>>>                            -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>>
>>>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>>>  And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>>>  Helping you out."
>>>>                            -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>> And life has a funny way of helping you out
>> Helping you out."
>>                            -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette
>

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