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From Alexandro Colorado <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache OpenOffice Project Twitter Account
Date Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:08:32 GMT
On 4/19/12, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischmidt@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 4/19/12 9:41 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>> On 4/19/12, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:07 AM, Alexandro Colorado<jza@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 4/18/12, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Roberto Galoppini<rgaloppini@geek.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Alexandro Colorado<jza@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 11:15 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>> My point is that we are going to be bombarded with support
>>>>>>>>> questions,
>>>>>>>>> regardless if we choose not to, is not up to us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure you can redirect them to the ML/Forums, but that
would be done
>>>>>>>>> 99% of the time, which will frustrate the user and the
handlers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's the point I wanted to make based on the experience
of
>>>>>>>>> handling
>>>>>>>>> these accounts in the past.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like I said, I am more concern with solving the issue
of operation
>>>>>>>>> first than figuring out which new accounts to create
and why/why
>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I am not advocating removal of any existing accounts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sure you didn't. That is not what I said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Alexandro and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will @openofficeorg be under the Apache OpenOffice control? If this
is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> case, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to use that one instead of
the
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> ones. In case I'd recommend to upload the new logo, as well as to
>>>>>> update
>>>>>> the short description.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We've tried to contact the owner of @openofficeorg, to discuss putting
>>>>> this account under PPMC control.  We have no had success with that. So
>>>>> we're going forward with a new account.  It should be easy and quick
>>>>> to get a similar number of followers once we promote it on the
>>>>> homepage.
>>>>
>>>> Who decided this? you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Decided what? That it would be easy to get a similar number of
>>> followers?  That is purely my estimate, based on the fact that we've
>>> managed to get almost 8000 users to sign up on the ooo-announce list.
>>> Following someone on Twitter should is much easier than signing up on
>>> an ezmlm list.   So if we have 8000 there, getting  more than 1500
>>> Twitter followers should not be hard.
>>
>> So you are deciding things? When you said 'we're going forward' you
>> mean you are moving forward.
>
> I think you misunderstand something here. Rob decided not on his own, I

No way to prove that.

> think it was the outcome of this longer discussion. and if the owner of
> the existing account doesn't reply it is natural to move forward with a
> new one, isn't it?
>
> What is your concern here?

Rob contacted me on the matter, and I reply back into the thread and
now he said that nobody replied and refer to his decisions as we, when
he is the one alone making how things are shaping.


>
> Juergen
>
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I am advocating is the creation of a set un-ambiguous
official
>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice project accounts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what will happened when the unambigous official account get support
>>>>>>> inquiries everyday?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a look at the flow of questions and answers, it seems manageable
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe that there is work needing to be done to establish
the
>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>> OpenOffice identity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems to me that this is an appropriate step to further
that
>>>>>>>> goal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here my list of recommendations:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Rebranding existing accounts (see above)
>>>>>> 2. Spend some time to choose (few) people to follow (maybe using
>>>>>> keywords
>>>>>> like office suites, odf, open standards, etc).
>>>>>>     As of today only Alexandro and Rob are followed by @openofficeorg,
>>>>>> think we should spend some time to choose people to follow, so that
it
>>>>>> could be easier to engage in conversations using tools like
>>>>>> googlefinder,
>>>>>> Listorious, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is an interesting point.  Many people decide who to follow based
>>>>> on recommendation engines that look at existing following patterns in
>>>>> Twitter.  So having a good set of mutual followers will help.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Start simple. So announcements, news from our blog, new committers,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>> 4. Be consistent. Two message a day could be a good starting point,
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> once a day over the week-ends.
>>>>>> 5. Don't follow back just for the sake of it, it's wise to follow
only
>>>>>> people we might want to engage with.
>>>>>> 6. Start conversations with people we know, related projects, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, we might congratulate other OSS projects,Apache and
>>>>> external, that make new releases, if these would be of interest to our
>>>>> followers.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 7. Establish a clear policy about language style, but especially
for
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> handle "crises"
>>>>>> 8. Use a tool to measure our improvements, both Klout and PeerIndex
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> useful in this respect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roberto
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure I agree, but my point is really about how to do it based
on
>>>>>>> previous issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 11:02 -0500, Alexandro Colorado
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I think this provide a bit of confussion on the
user end. Also I
>>>>>>>>>>> recognize the struggle of keeping the accounts
active. Making
>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>> accounts will increase the job.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The blog itself has not been updated that frequently,
and I am
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> sure if this will increase as we get a release.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the use of the accounts on my experience
is support-like
>>>>>>>>>>> issues. So relying on one single point of contact
is also pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> bad.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having an AOO-Support and AOO-Annoucement is
equally not good
>>>>>>> strategy
>>>>>>>>>>> in my account because people will tend to stick
to the account
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> they see crossing their path. (Just because we
structure one way,
>>>>>>>>>>> doesnt mean users will do so).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One of the issues of openofficeorg accounts both
on Facebook
>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>> plus and twitter had been the issue of keeping
the content fresh
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> also interacting as a group as opposed to an
individual.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would argue to stop taking liberties on creating
new accounts
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> instead take liberties on designing a good strategy
to solve some
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> these basic issues that tackle these problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So far I am not even sure how these accounts
could be handle by
>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure and what are the requirements.
Rob mention that
>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure should manage these, but I am
also not sure how
>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>> will they take to proxy the messages specially
when it comes to
>>>>>>>>>>> support and we get 100 inquiries a day (for example).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandro,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good points - I would simply emphasize that I am
not at all saying
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> the apacheoo accounts should be about support - not
at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The ApacheOO accounts (lets focus on just twitter
and identi.ca)
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> moment - would be used specifically as a broadcast
mechanism.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How I as envisioning it, at least.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2012-04-16 at 00:50 -0400, drew wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2012-04-15 at 18:25 -0400, Rob
Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM,
drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <drew@baseanswers.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 17:43 +0200,
Roberto Galoppini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:09
PM, Rob Weir<
>>>>>>> robweir@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Social media outreach,
via Twitter, Facebook, Google+,
>>>>>>> etc.,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important part of outreach
to users. Although the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community is firmly rooted
in mailing lists, we know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live in a different world.
  If we want to engage with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use the tools that they
use, and communicate the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communicate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that we're very close
to the AOO 3.4 release, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a project Twitter
account, under PPMC control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "under PPMC control"
I mean something similar to how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project blog:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Any PPMC member, upon
request, can have write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We can use the project's
official logo in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conjunction
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We would promote the
account on our project's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We would generally
treat the account as an official
>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, not as a personal
account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying we need
to pre-review and and approve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "tweet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent through the account.
 But we should set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expectations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account is to be used
in a professional fashion,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upholding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standards of this project,
not used to settle personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disputes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promote personal business,
etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An option could be to agree
on a simple guideline for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone knows how to handle
it. I'm thinking not only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication, but also about
who to follow, how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations, improve outreach,
etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are already several
Twitter accounts that use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OOo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trademarks:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/#!/openofficeorg
 --- This account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1571
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followers.  But it is
not sharing any AOO status, no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts, announcements,
etc.  Who controls it?  Are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we able to get it under
PPMC control?  Can we rebrand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That could be a good starting
point, I think. It seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only one who can send DM
to the actual owner's account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/#!/openoffice
-- This account seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unused.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd try to get that it too.
It's better than ApacheOO,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to put the full name in the
Settings>  Account>  Name.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Roberto, Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did so now, and followed
up with an email to the
>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the whois database for the
domain listed, the linked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-domain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been dead for a while IIRC, though
the main site is alive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> report back when (or if) I hear
anything back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Drew,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 days now.  Have you
received any response from
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> domain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I'm ready to go with a new
account:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/apacheoo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good account name for an announcement
stream, even with the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Howdy all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to follow up on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I think about, IMO, this is a good moment
to use a new
>>>>>>> account(s)
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> a more formal, account of record if you will,
for the project;
>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenOffice. The use of the apache in the
account name makes
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>> sense to me for this purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The flip side of that then would be to treat
the existing
>>>>>>>>>>>> social
>>>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>>>> account as more community, less formal, voices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyawy - the apacheoo does get my vote for
an appropriate name,
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> project account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I took the liberty then to register the same
name with the
>>>>>>> identi.ca
>>>>>>>>>>>> network.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://identi.ca/apacheoo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO identi.ca, which has a smaller user base
then twitter,
>>>>>>> represents
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> important target group to the project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The two accounts, if we use them for this,
should be tied
>>>>>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly at the level that a post to the
identi.ca should
>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>> broadcast to the twitter network. (easy to
do)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on 'formal account of
record':
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would recommend that the accounts not be
used to follow lots of
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> accounts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts should not be used to re-tweet
others messages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts should _not_ be used for auto-generated
scheduled
>>>>>>>>>>>> postings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts do need to be used on a regular
basis to build up
>>>>>>>>>>>> followers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ability to 'follow' the accounts needs to
be easily done within
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>>> web infrastructure and there should be some
naturally well
>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> locations where that can be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone using the accounts should remember
to keep the message
>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that's a good spot to shutup huh :-)
and let folks add
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> wisdom here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So what you think - Use the new ApacheOO
accounts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have it configured with the BirdHerd
service, so up to 10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPMC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members will be able send tweets
via that account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>>> OpenOffice.org Español
>>>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>> This e- mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s)
>>>>>> above.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>>>>>> distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachment(s) is
>>>>>> strictly
>>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>> notify the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the message
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> any attachment(s) from your system. Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>> OpenOffice.org Español
>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
http://es.openoffice.org

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