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From Louis Suárez-Potts <>
Subject Re: [ooo-site]
Date Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:59:07 GMT

On 2012-04-12, at 15:35 , Rob Weir wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 10:26 AM, drew <> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 10:05 -0400, drew wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 07:44 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 10:50 PM, drew <> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 03:47 +0200, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>>>>>> Am 12.04.12 03:40, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Dave Fisher <>
>>>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>> You are missing that Kay changed the subject and then had
a back and forth with Marcus to solve this trouble.
>>>>>>> And the end result is that the page still says nothing about
>>>>>>> incubation or how to get involved with the project?
>>>>>>> I dunno about you, but I think we still have a problem.
>>>>>> The Feed is from the so it's not maintained
>>>>>> OOo. I think we have no danish people here atm who can make a update.
>>>>>> propose to delete this feed on the dk site to avoid confusion. The
>>>>>> update from the site is a different storry. but this problem exist
>>>>>> the moast NLC pages
>>>>> Hi Raphael
>>>>> Well, I wouldn't necessarily go along with that idea.
>>>>> I'd say is every bit as valid a community
>>>>> resource as the user services forums every were or are.
>>>> I'd go with something in the middle. is a resource.  So we
>>>> should have a link to it.  But it should not have its contents
>>>> imported wholesale into a top, central position of the webpage, as if
>>>> it were the voice of the AOO project.  Its current prominence gives it
>>>> the appearance of official notifications from the project, which they
>>>> are not.  That, combined with the total lack of actual project project
>>>> notifications, would confuse users.
>>>>> They are acting at that forum in all material respects the same as the
>>>>> user services forums, the only difference being a somewhat more
>>>>> prominent LibO image (not an official one btw).
>>>> I have no problem with the work they are doing on their own forums.
>>>> The issue is with the user-facing Danish page at  That
>>>> page does not seem to be maintained at all, which is the concern that
>>>> Raphael and I are pointing out.
>>>>> So, does the sub-domain need upkeep - I guess, but I can see no reason
>>>>> to remove the feed from that forum.
>>>> If no one steps forward to maintain that page (and the Norwegian one)
>>>> I'll find translators to translate the generic page into those
>>>> languages, so we have the basics at least covered for users.
>>> And I will remove the pages from the website - if there is no community
>>> to back it up they should not be there. This is now a community project
>>> not a corporate project yes?
>> Speaking of which I would also remove, would encourage removal of, the
>> az sub-domain and the by sub-domain as it seems there is no maintenance
>> on the pages and what links are there, for instance to an external
>> repository, are now dead.
>> In the specific case of the Danes and Norwegians - I would recommend
>> that we talk with them, using what seems like the only active channel
>> right now and that is their web forums. I don't now maybe they will tell
>> this project to go fly a kite, I rather doubt it, but maybe, you know
>> those Norwegians they are a hot blooded bunch *chuckling* which case
>> then sure we make changes to the page that make sense.
> You are getting into group and identity politics.  I'm not going
> there. I don't care about "Danes" and "Norwegians" in the abstract.
> If any single Dane wants to come here and volunteer to update that
> page, then to me he is as good as the entire nation.  I'm not giving
> any presumption of greater authority to any other body of Danes that
> is not volunteering for this project.  Also, if a non-Dane who speaks
> Danish fluently volunteers to update the page, then I am fine with
> that as well.

I second Rob's point. The point of the NLC as we constituted it, and as I pretty strongly
insisted, was that if X needs to be done, then it be done: it matters not who does it as long
as it is done according to the provisions and protocols of the project. That means if it is
bad it's there to be made better. National politics **do not matter**. 

Regional issues are also pragmatic. 

See, I have rather strong political beliefs which, for the life of me, I cannot fathom why
I seem to be more or less alone in holding. :-) But I accept the help from just about anyone
who is not actively harming others or promoting that sort of harm. So, despite my being an
atheist and libertarian anarchist in some areas, I find myself eating at the same table as
religious zealots of decided conservative views. And we have a good dinner and eat the food
we've made together.

> That said, if you want to talk to anyone and encourage Danes to
> volunteer here, then great.  No one is stopping you.  Whatever Danes
> you find, plus whatever I find, will by definition be the community of
> volunteers who maintain that page.

There are many Danes who've done excellent work on OOo and now could probably be induced to
work on AOO. Many now work on LibreOffice. But I still would like to think of Peter T. and
many others as my friends, and would be happy to contact them.

A while ago, I had promoted the idea of a Nordic supra-group for OOo development and promotion.
That idea had gained considerable loft but the wings were if not clipped left flapping in
the divided and now empty air.

Still: ODF is the glue and usage the issue.


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