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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [WWW] two questions about DL button on home page...
Date Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:25:20 GMT


On 04/26/2012 07:02 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 04/25/2012 02:29 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/25/2012 10:03 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>
>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:48 AM, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>
     wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Marcus (OOo)<marcus.mail@wtnet.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 04/24/2012 11:09 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2012 01:05 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 04/24/2012 07:54 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all--
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, when I click on "I want to download
OpenOffice", I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> expanded green button I was getting last week,
for example. I had
>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> changes to this a week or so ago, but the changes
that I
>>>>>>>>>>> incorporated,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> the green button itself were just fine after
that. I think my
>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>> experience may be due to a problem with getting
the mirror link
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> to confirm this in a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, question #1.
>>>>>>>>>>> I would like someone else to try this and let
the list know what
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> results are -- are you getting the expanded green
button or being
>>>>>>>>>>> shuttled
>>>>>>>>>>> to /download/index.html instead?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Question #2. If you're not getting the DL button,
or even if you
>>>>>>>>>>> are,
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> strongly do you feel about having the expanding
button, or would
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> jump to /download/index.html be just as good?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know there was a LOT of discussion when this
design first
>>>>>>>>>>> emerged,
>>>>>>>>>>> but,
>>>>>>>>>>> it would much much easier for changes in DL code
-- Rob's proposal
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> unification of yesterday for instance -- if we
could just dump
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> "internal" DL button on the home page. Yes, the
buttons are the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>> eye anyway on both the main index.html page and
>>>>>>>>>>> /download/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the html implementation is different, different
enough that both
>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>> areas need to be changed when changes are needed.
Additionally,
>>>>>>>>>>> dumping the
>>>>>>>>>>> "generated" button on the home page would allow
us to standardize
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> easily on incorporating the DL button -- the
code used on
>>>>>>>>>>> /download/index.html -- on other pages like the
NL pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for looking at this and responding.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems Rob's last commit (r1329501 - "Remove unneeded
GA code")
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> removed accidently also the toggle mode for the download
button.
>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> done via JavaScript, too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've repaired it as the expanded donwload button
is IMHO a nice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marcus--Thanks for this...but...it would be really really
helpful if
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> could just do away with this approach.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm going to work on the underpinnings in /download today,
and not
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> home page, so I'll wait to hear from a few others.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So far, it looks like we've got 2 to "remove/OK with
removing it"
>>>>>>>>> (me,
>>>>>>>>> Dave), and 1 not to remove (you).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course we can remove the toggle feature for the green
box. Lets
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> others say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've just re-enabled it because the effort was really minimal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the arguments for and against?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For:
>>>>>> I think the argument FOR the inclusion of the expanding DL button
on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> home page was the idea of having the DL available "right there" for
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> Still, unlike other sites which would automatically display the
>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> DL immediately, the user must click on the DL area of the page to
"get"
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> green DL button, so I question the former reasoning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   From the homepage, it is the same number of mouse clicks to download
>>>>> either way, right?    We don't save any clicks by dynamically
>>>>> expanding the DL button on the home page.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes...this is correct -- same number of clicks...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On the "against" side.
>>>>>> * We bring in a bunch of additional JS to the home page which we
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> need if the "I want to download..." simply went to download/index.html.
>>>>>> * None of the other links on the home page work like this -- they
all
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> you someplace else
>>>>>> * In theory, editing changes to make download/index.html work should
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> port to the DL button on the home page, but for some reason, I,
>>>>>> personally
>>>>>> have had issues with this in the past, I don't remember why
>>>>>> * You can not, based on how the button is currently constructed on
the
>>>>>> home
>>>>>> page, just  pop-in something to make this happen -- some of the JS
>>>>>> needed
>>>>>> must live on the home page to make things work. Well maybe you can
and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> just don't know how to do this.
>>>>>> * Changes made to the current DL logic (and really this whole process
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> terms of coding REALLY needs further evaluation)  like function names
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> arguments to them, etc. need to be ported to two areas rather than
one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO, if we have a a dedicated download page we can improve it over
>>>>> time.  Having more screen real-estate would allow us to make install
>>>>> instructions more prominent and give other helpful information.
>>>>> Eventually the thing on the home page will be comparatively less
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree -- just making the few changes we did recently was, while not
>>>> difficult, took some futzing on the home page DL button to make things
>>>> LOOK
>>>> a bit nicer. And, I don't like making unnecessary changes ON the home
>>>> page.
>>>> :/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> My .02
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this stage of this project's existence, I think we need to
>>>>>> concentrate
>>>>>> on minimizing complexity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My life lesson:  Only start a garden as large as you are able care for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> EXACTLY! We definitely need to consider the number, time and skills of
>>>> the
>>>> gardeners in this case! ;]
>>>>
>>>> so? conclusion?
>>>>
>>>
>>> So far it looks like the support is for making this be a link to the
>>> download page.   That is my preference as well.   But let's let the
>>> earth turn and see if anyone else has thoughts.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> yes, I'm good with that as well...bad bad bad bad net connection day for me!
>> :( so no work so far anyway...
>>
>
> The earth has turned, and no objections.   So let's do it!

okie dokie!

>
> Did you want to check in the change, or did you want me to?
>
> I think we can strip out all of the download logic from the home page,
> which should make it load faster as well.

well I was thinking about doing it later today when I get back to work 
on my test DL page (almost done with that -- will post something for 
folks to ponder on later today!) but feel free to make this change 
earlier if you feel like it.

I'm really very happy we came to this conclusion.

>
> -Rob
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aside from a good user experience, my interest is in having clean,
>>>>>>> unifiied download logic, to support an overall download policy,
>>>>>>> including how we mirror, how we track statistics, how we route
and how
>>>>>>> we recommend downloads based on request headers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marecus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>>>>>   And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>>>>>   Helping you out."
>>>>>>                             -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>>
>>>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>>>   And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>>>   Helping you out."
>>>>                             -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
>>   And life has a funny way of helping you out
>>   Helping you out."
>>                             -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
  And life has a funny way of helping you out
  Helping you out."
                             -- "Ironic", Alanis Morissette

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