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From Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Apache OpenOffice Project Twitter Account
Date Thu, 19 Apr 2012 07:48:35 GMT
On 4/19/12 9:41 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On 4/19/12, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:07 AM, Alexandro Colorado<jza@apache.org>  wrote:
>>> On 4/18/12, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Roberto Galoppini<rgaloppini@geek.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Alexandro Colorado<jza@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 11:15 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>> My point is that we are going to be bombarded with support
>>>>>>>> questions,
>>>>>>>> regardless if we choose not to, is not up to us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure you can redirect them to the ML/Forums, but that would
be done
>>>>>>>> 99% of the time, which will frustrate the user and the handlers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's the point I wanted to make based on the experience
of
>>>>>>>> handling
>>>>>>>> these accounts in the past.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like I said, I am more concern with solving the issue of
operation
>>>>>>>> first than figuring out which new accounts to create and
why/why
>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, I am not advocating removal of any existing accounts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sure you didn't. That is not what I said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alexandro and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Will @openofficeorg be under the Apache OpenOffice control? If this is
>>>>> the
>>>>> case, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to use that one instead of the
>>>>> new
>>>>> ones. In case I'd recommend to upload the new logo, as well as to update
>>>>> the short description.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've tried to contact the owner of @openofficeorg, to discuss putting
>>>> this account under PPMC control.  We have no had success with that. So
>>>> we're going forward with a new account.  It should be easy and quick
>>>> to get a similar number of followers once we promote it on the
>>>> homepage.
>>>
>>> Who decided this? you?
>>>
>>
>> Decided what? That it would be easy to get a similar number of
>> followers?  That is purely my estimate, based on the fact that we've
>> managed to get almost 8000 users to sign up on the ooo-announce list.
>> Following someone on Twitter should is much easier than signing up on
>> an ezmlm list.   So if we have 8000 there, getting  more than 1500
>> Twitter followers should not be hard.
>
> So you are deciding things? When you said 'we're going forward' you
> mean you are moving forward.

I think you misunderstand something here. Rob decided not on his own, I 
think it was the outcome of this longer discussion. and if the owner of 
the existing account doesn't reply it is natural to move forward with a 
new one, isn't it?

What is your concern here?

Juergen

>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I am advocating is the creation of a set un-ambiguous official
>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice project accounts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what will happened when the unambigous official account get support
>>>>>> inquiries everyday?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a look at the flow of questions and answers, it seems manageable
>>>>> to
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe that there is work needing to be done to establish
the
>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>> OpenOffice identity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems to me that this is an appropriate step to further that
goal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here my list of recommendations:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Rebranding existing accounts (see above)
>>>>> 2. Spend some time to choose (few) people to follow (maybe using
>>>>> keywords
>>>>> like office suites, odf, open standards, etc).
>>>>>     As of today only Alexandro and Rob are followed by @openofficeorg,
>>>>> think we should spend some time to choose people to follow, so that it
>>>>> could be easier to engage in conversations using tools like
>>>>> googlefinder,
>>>>> Listorious, etc.
>>>>
>>>> That is an interesting point.  Many people decide who to follow based
>>>> on recommendation engines that look at existing following patterns in
>>>> Twitter.  So having a good set of mutual followers will help.
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Start simple. So announcements, news from our blog, new committers,
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> 4. Be consistent. Two message a day could be a good starting point,
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> once a day over the week-ends.
>>>>> 5. Don't follow back just for the sake of it, it's wise to follow only
>>>>> people we might want to engage with.
>>>>> 6. Start conversations with people we know, related projects, etc.
>>>>
>>>> For example, we might congratulate other OSS projects,Apache and
>>>> external, that make new releases, if these would be of interest to our
>>>> followers.
>>>>
>>>>> 7. Establish a clear policy about language style, but especially for
how
>>>>> to
>>>>> handle "crises"
>>>>> 8. Use a tool to measure our improvements, both Klout and PeerIndex may
>>>>> be
>>>>> useful in this respect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roberto
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure I agree, but my point is really about how to do it based on
>>>>>> previous issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 11:02 -0500, Alexandro Colorado
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think this provide a bit of confussion on the user
end. Also I
>>>>>>>>>> recognize the struggle of keeping the accounts active.
Making
>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>> accounts will increase the job.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The blog itself has not been updated that frequently,
and I am
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> sure if this will increase as we get a release.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the use of the accounts on my experience
is support-like
>>>>>>>>>> issues. So relying on one single point of contact
is also pretty
>>>>>>>>>> bad.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having an AOO-Support and AOO-Annoucement is equally
not good
>>>>>> strategy
>>>>>>>>>> in my account because people will tend to stick to
the account
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> they see crossing their path. (Just because we structure
one way,
>>>>>>>>>> doesnt mean users will do so).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One of the issues of openofficeorg accounts both
on Facebook
>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>> plus and twitter had been the issue of keeping the
content fresh
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> also interacting as a group as opposed to an individual.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would argue to stop taking liberties on creating
new accounts
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> instead take liberties on designing a good strategy
to solve some
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> these basic issues that tackle these problems.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So far I am not even sure how these accounts could
be handle by
>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure and what are the requirements. Rob
mention that
>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure should manage these, but I am also
not sure how
>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>> will they take to proxy the messages specially when
it comes to
>>>>>>>>>> support and we get 100 inquiries a day (for example).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandro,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good points - I would simply emphasize that I am not
at all saying
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> the apacheoo accounts should be about support - not at
all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The ApacheOO accounts (lets focus on just twitter and
identi.ca)
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> moment - would be used specifically as a broadcast mechanism.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How I as envisioning it, at least.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/12, drew<drew@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2012-04-16 at 00:50 -0400, drew wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2012-04-15 at 18:25 -0400, Rob Weir
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM, drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <drew@baseanswers.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 17:43 +0200,
Roberto Galoppini
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:09
PM, Rob Weir<
>>>>>> robweir@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Social media outreach, via
Twitter, Facebook, Google+,
>>>>>> etc.,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important part of outreach
to users. Although the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community is firmly rooted
in mailing lists, we know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live in a different world.
  If we want to engage with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use the tools that they use,
and communicate the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communicate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that we're very close
to the AOO 3.4 release, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a project Twitter account,
under PPMC control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "under PPMC control" I
mean something similar to how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project blog:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Any PPMC member, upon
request, can have write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We can use the project's
official logo in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conjunction
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We would promote the account
on our project's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- We would generally treat
the account as an official
>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project, not as a personal
account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying we need to
pre-review and and approve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "tweet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent through the account.
 But we should set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expectations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account is to be used in
a professional fashion,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upholding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standards of this project,
not used to settle personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disputes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promote personal business,
etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An option could be to agree on
a simple guideline for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone knows how to handle
it. I'm thinking not only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication, but also about
who to follow, how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations, improve outreach,
etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are already several
Twitter accounts that use the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OOo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trademarks:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/#!/openofficeorg
 --- This account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1571
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followers.  But it is not
sharing any AOO status, no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts, announcements, etc.
 Who controls it?  Are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we able to get it under PPMC
control?  Can we rebrand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenOffice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That could be a good starting
point, I think. It seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only one who can send DM to the
actual owner's account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/#!/openoffice
-- This account seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unused.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd try to get that it too. It's
better than ApacheOO,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to put the full name in the Settings>
 Account>  Name.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Roberto, Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did so now, and followed up
with an email to the
>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the whois database for the domain
listed, the linked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-domain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been dead for a while IIRC, though
the main site is alive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> report back when (or if) I hear anything
back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Drew,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 days now.  Have you received
any response from
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> domain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I'm ready to go with a new account:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/apacheoo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a good account name for an announcement stream,
even with the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Howdy all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to follow up on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As I think about, IMO, this is a good moment
to use a new
>>>>>> account(s)
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> a more formal, account of record if you will,
for the project;
>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>> OpenOffice. The use of the apache in the account
name makes
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>> sense to me for this purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The flip side of that then would be to treat
the existing
>>>>>>>>>>> social
>>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>>> account as more community, less formal, voices.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyawy - the apacheoo does get my vote for an
appropriate name,
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> project account.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I took the liberty then to register the same
name with the
>>>>>> identi.ca
>>>>>>>>>>> network.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://identi.ca/apacheoo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IMO identi.ca, which has a smaller user base
then twitter,
>>>>>> represents
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> important target group to the project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The two accounts, if we use them for this, should
be tied
>>>>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly at the level that a post to the identi.ca
should
>>>>>>>>>>> automatically
>>>>>>>>>>> broadcast to the twitter network. (easy to do)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on 'formal account of record':
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Would recommend that the accounts not be used
to follow lots of
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> accounts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts should not be used to re-tweet others
messages.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts should _not_ be used for auto-generated
scheduled
>>>>>>>>>>> postings.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The accounts do need to be used on a regular
basis to build up
>>>>>>>>>>> followers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ability to 'follow' the accounts needs to be
easily done within
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>> web infrastructure and there should be some naturally
well
>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
>>>>>>>>>>> locations where that can be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone using the accounts should remember to
keep the message
>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that's a good spot to shutup huh :-) and
let folks add
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> wisdom here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So what you think - Use the new ApacheOO accounts?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have it configured with the BirdHerd
service, so up to 10
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPMC
>>>>>>>>>>>>> members will be able send tweets via
that account.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //drew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>> OpenOffice.org Español
>>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ====
>>>>> This e- mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above.
>>>>> It
>>>>> may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the
>>>>> intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>>>>> distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachment(s) is strictly
>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
>>>>> immediately
>>>>> notify the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the message and
>>>>> any attachment(s) from your system. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> OpenOffice.org Español
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>
>


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