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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all volunteers: It is time to test)
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2012 01:27:33 GMT
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> I emphasized that my practice is a personal one and I did not presume that it was shared
by this project.
>
> On the other hand, I am not so willing to anoint the Apache OpenOffice project as being
 "this project for many years, where point releases do overlay prior releases."  Whether
that was wise or not, I claim it is unwise of us for releases of Apache OpenOffice.
>
> I'm also amazed that anyone here would justify anything by saying we're no worse than
Microsoft, in effect, with the arguably hyperbolic claim that "Microsoft breaks their plugins
with every release and requires reinstall."
>

Actually, Dennis, I'm justifying the current behavior based on not
seeing any practical alternative, as well as the fact that no one has
volunteered a fix, even given the fact that this issue has been known
for over 3 months.  That is reality.

The Microsoft example was to demonstrate that this is not an
earth-shattering problem, that users do not die from having to
reinstall extensions, that some users are actually accustomed to this.

Of course, if you or anyone else wants to provide a better solution,
then I have no objection if they want to give it a try.  In the end
we're a do-ocracy.  That's how we prioritize things.  It is done based
on what volunteers volunteer to do, where they put their effort.  It
is not based on the wishes of those who stand on the sidelines and
"suggest".  Maybe for trivial fixes a mere suggestion would receive a
charitable response from a programmer.  But I would not count on that
for more significant efforts.

-Rob



>  - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 15:08
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> Subject: Re: [EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all volunteers: It is time to test)
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
>> I recall the discussion about the BerkeleyDB.  However, the dots with respect to
the current state and consequences for users were not connected for me until I saw Jürgen
Schmidt's reply today concerning the experience of Larry Gusaas.
>>
>> My creation of this derivative thread was immediate.  It was inspired by situation
being made so clear.
>>
>> I don't recall these consequences being so evident until the testing of the "system
integration" install versions began last week.  As a matter of my *personal* policy, I would
never release in a way that automatically removed previous versions, especially for a release
under a reconstituted project.  But that's a matter of personal principles.
>>
>
> Your "personal policy" goes against the constant practice of this
> project for many many years, where point releases do overlay prior
> releases.
>
>> I do not have the experience and skills to make such changes to the Apache OpenOffice
code base.  I do have the means to detect and demonstrate defects and make Bugzilla reports.
 I can also recommend that the advice of RGB ES and Eric b be drawn upon. And I agree with
Larry and Jean that this is a significant policy issue.
>>
>
> Please do.  I'd love to see the BZ issues.  This would make the
> question concrete rather than the rampant speculation I've otherwise
> read today.
>
>> Perhaps this issue could have been surfaced and considered before now.  It doesn't
matter.  It is clearly before us at this moment.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 14:39
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all volunteers: It is time to
test)
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2012-03-05 3:30 PM  Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'll put it to you quickly simple.  If you have been paying attention
>>>> you will realize that we're discussing release blocking issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been paying attention. Have you?
>>> In the thread "Calling all volunteers: It is time to test" you wrote
>>>
>>>   "We could use help verifying the install in all real-world scenarios, on
>>> clean OS installs,
>>>   as upgrades to previous versions of OOo."  and
>>>   "Please send a short note to the ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org telling us
>>> what platform and
>>>
>>>   scenario you installed (fresh install, upgrade, install next to
>>> LibreOffice, etc.)."
>>>
>>> I did an install over OOo on my Mac and reported that it deleted the
>>> extensions in my user profile.
>>>
>>> Dennis started this thread "[EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all
>>> volunteers: It is time to test)" to discuss if  releases of AOO should
>>> overwrite the OOo version, thus deleting all installed extensions.
>>>
>>> Does this not require discussion?
>>>
>>
>> This has been known for several months and has been part of the 3.4
>> plan.  We discussed it extensively in early December.  Certainly if
>> you have new information, new workarounds, new proposals, or even new
>> code, then I'm new we all would love to know about it.  But if you are
>> just noticing this for the first time, you might want to check the
>> list archives to catch up on the previous discussion first.  Search
>> for "berkeleydb".
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>

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