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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all volunteers: It is time to test)
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2012 01:48:46 GMT
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
> I think AOO has a problem. I think that a bad upgrade experience is a problem. I think
that poor and uncivil treatment of members of the community is also a problem.
>
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> On 2012-03-05 3:30 PM  Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll put it to you quickly simple.  If you have been paying attention
>>>>>> you will realize that we're discussing release blocking issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been paying attention. Have you?
>>>>> In the thread "Calling all volunteers: It is time to test" you wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>   "We could use help verifying the install in all real-world scenarios,
on
>>>>> clean OS installs,
>>>>>   as upgrades to previous versions of OOo."  and
>>>>>   "Please send a short note to the ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org telling
us
>>>>> what platform and
>>>>>
>>>>>   scenario you installed (fresh install, upgrade, install next to
>>>>> LibreOffice, etc.)."
>>>>>
>>>>> I did an install over OOo on my Mac and reported that it deleted the
>>>>> extensions in my user profile.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis started this thread "[EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all
>>>>> volunteers: It is time to test)" to discuss if  releases of AOO should
>>>>> overwrite the OOo version, thus deleting all installed extensions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this not require discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This has been known for several months and has been part of the 3.4
>>>> plan.  We discussed it extensively in early December.  Certainly if
>>>> you have new information, new workarounds, new proposals, or even new
>>>> code, then I'm new we all would love to know about it.  But if you are
>>>> just noticing this for the first time, you might want to check the
>>>> list archives to catch up on the previous discussion first.  Search
>>>> for "berkeleydb".
>>>>
>>>> In any case your questions suggests a simple misunderstanding.  The
>>>> issue with the extensions in 3.4 is not that the 3.4 install is
>>>> overwriting a profile or anything like that.  It is not, as you say.
>>>> that we are "deleting all installed extensions".  The issue is that
>>>> the extensions info in OOo 3.3 was stored locally in Berkeley Db
>>>> database file.  We had to remove berkeleydb because of its
>>>> incompatible license.  So the database file is there, but, even after
>>>> an upgrade, but we're not able to read it.  That is why the extensions
>>>> need to be reinstalled.
>>>
>>> Rob, I think you are the one who has a "simple" misunderstanding. This issue
is being re-raised now. Are we sure that there is no way that Berkeley DB can be used?
>>>
>>
>> Actually, there are grve misunderstandings here, both procedural and
>> technical.,  Some have taken the fact that the extensions need to be
>> reinstalled and extrapolated that as evidence that the profiles are
>> overwritten.
>>
>> The procedural error is to think that raising or "re-raising" an issue
>> magically makes code happen.
>>
>>> Subversion seems to allow it - http://subversion.apache.org/faq.html#divining-bdb-version
>>>
>>> Even if it can't be used should it be possible to hack the file to get the strings?
The data can't be too difficult to understand.
>>>
>>
>> Patches are welcome.
>>
>>> While not a functional blocker I firmly believe that this is a significant problem
for AOO and this should be addressed constructively.
>>>
>>
>> Patches are welcome.
>>
>>> Please don't give me a "where is the code" response.
>>>
>>
>> Patches are welcome.
>
> I explicitly asked that you not give a "where's the code" repsonse, but you are uncivil
enough to instead use the passive aggressive "patches are welcome" 3x.
>

Dave, not be honest with me.  If I demanded that you not bug me,
complain about something, not mention something I did, or in general
tried dictate what you can or cannot say, would you do it?  If so,
then please stop complaining about me.  If not, then why would you
expect I am going to listen to you as you try to dictate what I say or
don't say?

-Rob

> If you cannot be constructive then please - you don't have to respond. Please stop damaging
our good work with these type of threads.
>
> Best REgards,
> Dave
>
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Those
>>>>>> are the only changes we're making right now.  Release blocking issues
>>>>>> are issues in BZ that have the 3.4 release blocking issue flag set.
>>>>>> You are welcome to add such an issue if you think one is lacking.
 You
>>>>>> can suggest things until you turn blue in the face and it will not
>>>>>> accomplish as much as the simple act of entering an issue once in
BZ.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this not an issue for discussion? Having AOO overwrite, or not overwrite,
>>>>> OOo is a policy decision that needs discussion. Or, as the grand poobah,
are
>>>>> you saying it doesn't? Where has this decision been made?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This was decided last December when we discussed how to deal with the
>>>> removal of berkeleydb.  I think we're all open to better ideas and
>>>> better proposals if you have them.  But please also have some respect
>>>> for those who looked into this issue in detail previously.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> But I remind you that the fact that extensions will need to be
>>>>>> reinstalled in 3.4 is something that has been well-known in this
>>>>>> project for nearly 6 months now.  But no one has cared to do anything
>>>>>> about it.  And no one has raised it as release blocking issue, not
>>>>>> even as of today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And now the decision has to be made about how to deal with the problem.
>>>>> Overwriting OOo and eliminating the extensions will create a huge howl
from
>>>>> tons of users and create unnecessary extra work for the people providing
>>>>> user support.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again, I recommend you learn the facts, read the list archives, and
>>>> then if at that time you have additional insights, I'm sure we'd all
>>>> love to hear them.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> _________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry I. Gusaas
>>>>> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
>>>>> Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
>>>>> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind
>>>>> theirs." - Edgard Varese
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

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