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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all volunteers: It is time to test)
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2012 01:42:14 GMT
I think AOO has a problem. I think that a bad upgrade experience is a problem. I think that
poor and uncivil treatment of members of the community is also a problem.

On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2012-03-05 3:30 PM  Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll put it to you quickly simple.  If you have been paying attention
>>>>> you will realize that we're discussing release blocking issues.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have been paying attention. Have you?
>>>> In the thread "Calling all volunteers: It is time to test" you wrote
>>>> 
>>>>   "We could use help verifying the install in all real-world scenarios, on
>>>> clean OS installs,
>>>>   as upgrades to previous versions of OOo."  and
>>>>   "Please send a short note to the ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org telling us
>>>> what platform and
>>>> 
>>>>   scenario you installed (fresh install, upgrade, install next to
>>>> LibreOffice, etc.)."
>>>> 
>>>> I did an install over OOo on my Mac and reported that it deleted the
>>>> extensions in my user profile.
>>>> 
>>>> Dennis started this thread "[EXTENSIONS][RELEASE] (was RE: Calling all
>>>> volunteers: It is time to test)" to discuss if  releases of AOO should
>>>> overwrite the OOo version, thus deleting all installed extensions.
>>>> 
>>>> Does this not require discussion?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This has been known for several months and has been part of the 3.4
>>> plan.  We discussed it extensively in early December.  Certainly if
>>> you have new information, new workarounds, new proposals, or even new
>>> code, then I'm new we all would love to know about it.  But if you are
>>> just noticing this for the first time, you might want to check the
>>> list archives to catch up on the previous discussion first.  Search
>>> for "berkeleydb".
>>> 
>>> In any case your questions suggests a simple misunderstanding.  The
>>> issue with the extensions in 3.4 is not that the 3.4 install is
>>> overwriting a profile or anything like that.  It is not, as you say.
>>> that we are "deleting all installed extensions".  The issue is that
>>> the extensions info in OOo 3.3 was stored locally in Berkeley Db
>>> database file.  We had to remove berkeleydb because of its
>>> incompatible license.  So the database file is there, but, even after
>>> an upgrade, but we're not able to read it.  That is why the extensions
>>> need to be reinstalled.
>> 
>> Rob, I think you are the one who has a "simple" misunderstanding. This issue is being
re-raised now. Are we sure that there is no way that Berkeley DB can be used?
>> 
> 
> Actually, there are grve misunderstandings here, both procedural and
> technical.,  Some have taken the fact that the extensions need to be
> reinstalled and extrapolated that as evidence that the profiles are
> overwritten.
> 
> The procedural error is to think that raising or "re-raising" an issue
> magically makes code happen.
> 
>> Subversion seems to allow it - http://subversion.apache.org/faq.html#divining-bdb-version
>> 
>> Even if it can't be used should it be possible to hack the file to get the strings?
The data can't be too difficult to understand.
>> 
> 
> Patches are welcome.
> 
>> While not a functional blocker I firmly believe that this is a significant problem
for AOO and this should be addressed constructively.
>> 
> 
> Patches are welcome.
> 
>> Please don't give me a "where is the code" response.
>> 
> 
> Patches are welcome.

I explicitly asked that you not give a "where's the code" repsonse, but you are uncivil enough
to instead use the passive aggressive "patches are welcome" 3x.

If you cannot be constructive then please - you don't have to respond. Please stop damaging
our good work with these type of threads.

Best REgards,
Dave



> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Those
>>>>> are the only changes we're making right now.  Release blocking issues
>>>>> are issues in BZ that have the 3.4 release blocking issue flag set.
>>>>> You are welcome to add such an issue if you think one is lacking.  You
>>>>> can suggest things until you turn blue in the face and it will not
>>>>> accomplish as much as the simple act of entering an issue once in BZ.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Is this not an issue for discussion? Having AOO overwrite, or not overwrite,
>>>> OOo is a policy decision that needs discussion. Or, as the grand poobah,
are
>>>> you saying it doesn't? Where has this decision been made?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This was decided last December when we discussed how to deal with the
>>> removal of berkeleydb.  I think we're all open to better ideas and
>>> better proposals if you have them.  But please also have some respect
>>> for those who looked into this issue in detail previously.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> But I remind you that the fact that extensions will need to be
>>>>> reinstalled in 3.4 is something that has been well-known in this
>>>>> project for nearly 6 months now.  But no one has cared to do anything
>>>>> about it.  And no one has raised it as release blocking issue, not
>>>>> even as of today.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> And now the decision has to be made about how to deal with the problem.
>>>> Overwriting OOo and eliminating the extensions will create a huge howl from
>>>> tons of users and create unnecessary extra work for the people providing
>>>> user support.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again, I recommend you learn the facts, read the list archives, and
>>> then if at that time you have additional insights, I'm sure we'd all
>>> love to hear them.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> _________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Larry I. Gusaas
>>>> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
>>>> Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
>>>> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind
>>>> theirs." - Edgard Varese
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


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